Infinite Crisis Speculations.

[Symphony of Six]

Alright, I'm setting up this thread for anybody to lay down their two cents on what they think is going to happen in Infinite crisis and even the Countdowns leading up to it. So remember I'm sure we'll have to use a large amount of spoilers :shhh: so the editorial police don't come after us...anyways...anyone who reads most of my posts knows I like to go out on a limb in a lot of cases I'm wrong but recently I've been right about two things that have to do with this thread and that is the revelations of SPOILERS Blue Beetles death & the return of Jason Todd. Putting aside the obvious and including the rumor mill...both of these events have a powerful effect on Infinite Crisis.

So here's the speculations I'm starting this thread with...I'm going to put them under spoilers until I'm told differently because I don't want to catch fire from a certain person who deals with spoilers...who I also hope adds to this discussion...anyways...here goes...and I am going out on a major limb with one of these...

SPOILERS I know for a fact much as I stated that Blue Beetle was going to die that Booster Gold without a doubt has a huge part to play in the Infinite Crisis. He is from the future and I don't think this is like the X-Men futures that you never know will really happen...Hence, Booster Gold knows exactly what's going on and like I stated on another board he either let Blue Beetle die to serve the greater purpose...or he knows he's coming back more powerful (the scarab). It's obvious to me he put himself in the line of fire to let Blue Beetle solve or figure out that it was Max Lord pulling the strings behind OMAC & whatever checkmate has to do with the whole thing. Now this could come off as blasphemy to the major DC fans and I now consider myself one of them. But I've read that this "Crisis" will focus around the big three and how powerful & iconic they really are in the DCU...but, I have a strong feeling (this going off of Geoff Johns claim that people WILL DIE.) that Wonder Woman might be nearing her end as a goddess...I remind you this is my personal speculation...I think this has a lot to do with the return of Donna Troy...I might even go out on a limb and say that with the events of the future issue of Teen Titans something could happen to Batman with the return of Jason Todd and how Tim Drake took the mantle and it was only explained that it was because of Alfred's death...I could also go out on a limb because of the same storyline that something is going to happen to Superman because of Superboy having Lex Luthor's genes and the upcoming crossover of Teen Titans & Outsiders...The only death I think will happen is Wonder Womans out of these three...the Superman and Batman theories I think will have some relevance to the story.

Like I say these are only speculations so anybody who wants to tell me differently or has the balls to go out on a limb...speak to me my friends...

[Blake Petit]

Wonder Woman was stripped of her goddess stature some time ago, she's a "normal" Amazon again. That said, I don't believe for a second that DC would ever kill off one of the Big Three. Not for a heartbeat. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, while they may go through serious trauma and pain, are safe from mortal harm. Heck -- they couldn't do it, if for no other reason, because Warner Brothers has movies with all three of 'em in the works and wouldn't let them. (And if that seems far-fetched, remember, the only reason Aquaman was resurrected after his death in "Our Worlds at War" is because he was showing up in the Justice League cartoon and Warner Brothers wanted him around.)

I read some speculation elsewhere that -- this being a "Crisis" -- something may be going screwy with the timeline again, specifically with dead characters returning. That would explain away Jason Todd and Donna Troy and leave some wiggle room for Ted and even other deceased characters like, perhaps, Spoiler.

It's possible that Ted Kord will become the new Spectre, but I sincerely hope not. The Spectre is supposed to be linked to a host seeking redemption, absolution. Ted Kord has no NEED for redemption. He was a hero to the very end.

[Symphony of Six]

As far as the Blue Beetle goes I completly agree about the whole Spectre thing...I don't think that he'll become him. But Booster does know something about him, what that is has yet to be named. I don't know much about Wonder Woman as a character but her death seems logical to me...yeah, she's one of the big three but wasn't Hippolyta once Wonder Woman? Putting it into Hollywood standards as you did Blake it's rumored the new Flash is going to be Jay Garrick and as far as I'm concerned he's not as popular as Wally West or Barry Allen and Catwoman wasn't even Selena Kyle so all they're really doing is selling the name. Bringing back Donna Troy is going to be a major revelation and I'm sure they're not going to put her back into the mantle of Wonder Girl. As far as Jason Todd goes I think the possibilities for his resurrection and what's going to happen to him is endless...But don't get me wrong I do see your point about Wonder Woman and the big three but like I said it's all merely speculation.

[jonsnow]

I do not see DC ever killing off Superman entirely. He is way to iconic and Clark is really the only one who can fit the role. Yeah, he "died" but it was changed real fast. Now Wonder Woman or Batman I could see dying, but I doubt it. There are people who could step in and fill the role. I would hate to see Bruce go, but I have never been a big fan of Diana. That being said, I have no clue what is going to happen in the Crisis. I hope it is not something as simple as a rip in the timestream or something.

[Blake Petit]

Hippolyta was Wonder Woman for a time while Diana was a Goddess (and they later rectonned things to send her back in time, so she was actually the Wonder Woman of World War II as well), but that was always a temporary thing, nobody believed Diana would be out of the costume forever. Can you imagine the UPROAR if they were to kill her off? And you thought people went crazy for Hal Jordan?

As for Flash -- I haven't heard anything about Jay being in the movie. I think he'd be more likely to die, though simply because Flashes have died before. More than any other character in the DCU, the Flash is a mantle that is passed down. Jay passed it to Barry, Barry to Wally. Bart knows full well he's next in line. The only thing is, if Wally died, Bart is really still too young, so who would be the Flash in the meantime? Jesse Quick has lost her powers, Max Mercury is still missing... would Jay simply go full-time again until Bart was old enough? It's quite a pickle.

[Symphony of Six]

I don't think anything's going to happen to Wally West...at least him dying in this arc...although Infinite Crisis is going to set the bar as to how important it is to be a hero. I'm just saying the things about Donna Troy becoming Wonder Woman because it makes the most sense and as far as Superman & Batman...believe me I'm the last person who wants to see Batman die and I don't think he will but with Tim Drake out there and Jason Todd returning to do (something?) and Dan Di Dido personally saying this is going to be a huge year for Nightwing...only the future and Booster Gold holds the answers... :smirk: so in the end who knows?...it's all speculation baby!!!

[Blake Petit]

If you'll recall, Donna Troy wasn't Wonder Girl for YEARS before she died. I just don't see them killing off Diana. Not at all.

Batman -- it's the same thing. DC and Warner Brothers have too much invested in Bruce Wayne to kill him off, and Jason Todd's return, whatever it turns out to mean, doesn't change that. If they DID, the ONLY man who deserves to fill those boots at this point would be Dick Grayson.

[Terry Verticchio]

Alfred is dead? When did that happen?

Jason Todd coming back is LAME. He only became important after he died. What's next, poor Spoiler coming back in a year and half as another angry villain getting her revenge on Bat's for 'killing' her. LAAAME.

I'm reserving judgement on Donna Troy. She's died and come back to life more times than Pheonix.

[Blake Petit]

estee -- he's referring there to the possible future recently visited in Teen Titans.

I think bringing Jason back is a mistake too, but keep in mind, we've only seen one panel of him so far. I'm willing to wait through the end of the story arc before I decide if I'll quick on Batman (the title, not the character) because of it.

[Symphony of Six]

Blake, I think you and I are pretty much saying the same thing although it seems that you don't get what I'm saying, I agree with Dick being the only person that can fill the shoes of Batman, I agree that the big three are pretty much untouchable, all I'm saying is that at this point it has been said that people are going to die...who it will be is all in obviously Geoff Johns hands...I just wouldn't put it past him to off anyone and most of the evidence points in certain directions. And sure Hollywood owns rights to the characters for their movies, cartoons, and TV shows, but they don't own the characters in the comics themselves. SPOILERS As far as the return of Jason Todd I might have to think the obvious...one of Ra's pits. Talia is one of the characters in Villians United and was the pit that was used really fully explained in the Hush arc because as far as I got it in the story Tommy didn't use it. I can also see Ra's playing a big part in this crisis.

[Blake Petit]

You're wrong about one thing there, SoS. Warner Brothers DOES own the characters. Well, technically, they own DC Comics, but they own the characters by proxy, and therefore can dictate certain things. For the most part, they let the company run itself, but when things in the comics conflict with their other media properties, they'll step in, which is why Aquaman is alive again and why Jon Stewart is in the Justice League, wearing the same costume he wears in the cartoon.

[Symphony of Six]

Alright, I stand corrected but do you think they're going to stand in DiDido's way and change the direction he wants to go with DC. Anyways this is getting off topic as far as what is going to happen with Infinite Crisis.

[Blake Petit]

Actually, yeah, I do. Warner Brothers doesn't care about the characters except as vehicles for TV shows, movies and theme park rides. They let the company run itself when it doesn't get in their way, but when the stories start to look like they may change their bottom line, they step in. They have before.

And it's not really that off-topic. It's all about what the company will and won't allow in IC, after all. ;)

[AmazingMattMan]

yep, i think ras will be playing a big part in the crisis. especially since hes in the the movie coming out. and as far as the big three go, it does make a lil sense with the whole wonder woman/donna troy thing. but just because it makes sense that it could i happen, i definatly dont think it will happen. i do think there will be some huge shake ups with the big three. alfred could very much die, but as for bruce? no way.

[Blake Petit]

I don't think Ra's is going to play much of a part in the story. He's dead. Very, very dead. Permanently this time. And Rucka was the one who killed him off, and was quite adamant about "Death and the Maidens" being the last Ra's Al Ghul story, so I can't see him being resurrected for a story that Rucka is one of the architects of.

Of course, it's always possible that WB would want him back because he's in the movie... but that would suck. D&TM was a fantastic comic book and I'd hate to see it undone.

[Downfall]

Speculation, eh?

If it's gonna be the sequel to Crisis, and it has a name like Infinite, I would think that it would be a big, universe spanning story like the Rann/Thanagar war, not the more street-level dealings of a cabal of villains. I'm probably wrong however. Or, maybe it could deal with the Spectre and Eclipso's rampage. P.S, is the Day of Vengeance Eclipso gonna be the same Eclipso in the Superman/Captain Marvel teamup?

P.S, wasn't Zero Hour already the "sequel" to Crisis?

[Kevin Reeves]

Hey, BLAKE----didn't the recent time-travelling arc of TEEN TITANS include a reference to a living Ra's? I thought so.

I really did NOT like that arc at all, especially with the whole L.E.G.I.O.N. tie-in, & also because it seemed a bit careless with the timestream. I mean, Ra's is supposed to be DEAD dead dead. But then I swear that someone (was it Flamebird or Firebird, or someone like that? I can't recall exactly...) said that Ra's was alive, or at least that he had lived longer than we thought he had. I personally loved Ra's Al Ghul's character...never could get enough of the guy, but they made it such a pronounced curtain-call for him, I can't believe that TEEN TITANS went & un-did that, in a fashion. It would be really sweet if DC brought back the fact that (correct me if I'm wrong) Bruce Wayne had a love child with Talia, & that child is still out there...somewhere....per events of the graphic novel, SON OF THE DEMON.

[Blake Petit]

Yeah, it did mention Ra's, and as I recall, Robin's reply was something like "But he's dead."

But remember what "Ra's Al Ghul" means: Head of the Demon. (I think. Or something like that.) Speculation was that Nyssa would take the name for herself.

As for Batman and Talia's child -- I'd like to see it brought back too, but I hear DC now considers that an "Elseworlds" (even though it was written before that imprint was created). So dang. :(

[Fanatix]

For a topic with "speculations" in the title, there's a whole lot of white text. Is this because there are spoilers for countdown for the people who still haven't read that. Or are there spoilers for the actual crisis(like ppl have said what is going to happan and not what they think will happan). Because I want to participate in the conversation. But I did a pretty good job of staying spoiler free for countdown and it payed off so I'd like to not know whats gonna happan in the crisis.

[Blake Petit]

Nobody knows what's going to happen in Crisis yet. The spoilers are for Countdown and, on occasion, other books (such as the four minis and various other DC titles).

He makes a good point though, guys. If you're spoiling something, try to mention which titles you're spoiling in regular (not white) text so that everybody can read as much as they want to. And that goes for me too.

[Symphony of Six]

As far a the whole Ra's Thing SPOILER SUPERMAN/BATMAN Jeph Loeb already said that this whole elseworlds tale he's telling right now isn't entirely elseworlds...so who's to say that Ras won't make it back into the real DCu. And I think we all know that Loeb has had a little part in setting up Infinite Crisis.

[Blake Petit]

Hmm... that's an interesting thought, SoS. I hadn't heard that he said that, but if it's true, it's a definite possibility. : ponders:

[Kevin Reeves]

FANATIX & BLAKE----

I hear ya about stating which books the spoilers will be about. But I thought one of the big spoiler-y things was knowing WHICH books relate to COUNTDOWN (or that we think might). Like I was going to include the name of a book when I was asking about the "laz.folk" in a prior posting (I think on the DC COUNTDOWN review thread), but I did NOT include that book's name....because it would've implied that the book I was referring to may be related to COUNTDOWN, which I thought was something people did NOT want to be spoiled on.

See my dilemna? I'll do my best though! Scout's honor! (even tho I ain't no scout)

[Blake Petit]

I understand your hesitation there, Kevin. I don't know if it's that big a deal, though -- at this point, it seems like ANY DC Universe title of the past three years is potentially linked to Countdown/Infinite Crisis, and since we're just speculating here, I don't think there's any harm in saying "I think 'Blood of the Demon'" (for instance) is connected in "public." Just keep specific spoilers in white text. ;)

[Kevin Reeves]

Gotcha. Thanks Blake. Your clarification rocks as usual.

SO WHAT HAPPENED TO (about DC COUNTDOWN and DEATH AND THE MAIDENS--a mini-series that ended many moons ago)Nyssa & her relationship with Talia? Forgive me, maybe I should go buy back-issues of recent SUPERMAN or ACTION or something, as I know Talia has been in that neck of the woods (or was, once upon a time?) Is it just me, or is this DC COUNTDOWN the first time we've seen Talia since DEATH AND THE MAIDENS?

[S.A. Parvaze]

Well, it's the first time I've seen her since then.

[Blake Petit]

Same here. I'm assuming Rucka has some plans...

[jonsnow]

ok, specifically it was in Batman #616 in the first four to five pages that Bats hijacked the Lexcopr jet and Luthor made his comments. Now, I am not saying this will play in anyway, but it was something from Hush I was always confused about since it was never explicitly resolved.

[Jason Kanno]

Actually, I figure it was resolved in the first Superman/Batman arc. Luthor screwed with Batman's mind during "Public Enemies" just as Hush screwed with his mind during "Hush." At least, that's what I think.

[jonsnow]

Thats a good point, however, I think Hush will play some role in the upcoming Crisis. Why? Nothing specific, just a thought of mine.

[AmazingMattMan]

well, imma gonna take a guess here and say almost every character thats being used currently at all, is gonna play a role. after all, it is supposed to be huge!

[Jason Kanno]

I just hope DC pulls this off. Given the scale of consequences they've hinted at, the task ahead requires massive payoff, but I'm confident that Geoff and the boys will pull it off.

[Kevin Reeves]

Reading the solicitations for the DAY OF VENGEANCE mini, I'm wondering who would need...
(related to DAY OF VENGEANCE, GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH, & GREEN LANTERN)
...vengeance on all magic? I mean, the solicits say that a new Eclipso & Spectre (sans Hal Jordan as his earthly tether) wage a war on all magic.
So maybe someone said this already in another thread, heck--maybe I even read it & then forgot! Sorry if that's the case. My memory really does suck, it's not just an over-used excuse. I have very poor memory skills. But anyway, my speculation is that...
(related to DAY OF VENGEANCE, TEEN TITANS, & IDENTITY CRISIS)
...I think Dr. Light will be the new Spectre. I mean, he's battling the TEEN TITANS in their current arc, so if he happens to die--during that battle or in some other fashion--I think he'd be a prime candidate for the new Spectre, given that he needs redemption for all the things he has done on his own, as well as the fact that he deserves vengeance, of a sort, given what Zatanna & the others did to him, harkened back upon in IDENTITY CRISIS. I think that's my final answer for who will be the Spectre's new corporeal symbiont.

[Jason Kanno]

Unlikely, given his involvement in Villains United.

[Blake Petit]

Kevin -- Newsarama has a big interview up with Willingham about DOV right now. Well worth the read -- really made me anticipate the project.

[Kevin Reeves]

WMDude46---oh, snap. You're right. I didn't think about that. Didn't even realize he'd be involved in that mini. oh well, it was a good idea.

Blake--thanks for the tip. I'm en-route now. :yes:

[Lädderlappen]

This is theory that involves the titles, Identity Crisis and Countdown to infinite crisis.

SPOILERS AHEAD.

I have this crazy idea that would never happen, it’s about Batman becoming the next spirit of vengeance. I could somehow imagine Batman start seeing all the other heroes as threats after what they did to Dr. Light that he starts taking them out with all the plans he have for each them. And then he somehow dies. And there we have the perfect spirit of vengeance. Of course he would after a while somehow get back to be regular Bats, and some other not as important guy or gal becomes the Spectre.

I know this just crazy talking and it would probably never happen, it’s just a idea that took shape in my mind, so I thought I might just as well share it.

[Kevin Reeves]

I've been waiting for Bruce Wayne to die forever. I like his character, but being the only non-meta of DC's big three, I think it's time for a changing of the guard. Call me crazy. It's just the brutal writer in me outweighing my nostalgia-driven side. And if Bruce were to (following text is UNLIKELY speculation about DAY OF VENGEANCE)really die, it would be SO PERFECT! for him to become the Spectre's next human host. But that's all lolligags & fizzy-wickits. There's no way in heck that DC would kill off Bruce now. But what a great story THAT would be! Bruce becoming the Spectre! So perfect, so cruel!

OH MY GOSH. After having read that interview with the DoV writer, I am SOOOOO stoked about this mini. Thank goodness the inside artwork looks different from the cover art (no offense to the cover artist, who clearly puts my own sketching to shame; the inside artwork just revs my engine more, is all).

[Symphony of Six]

DAY OF VENGENCE SPOILERSI really like the idea of Jean Loring being the new Eclipso...I thought they were just going to leave her in Arkham to rot for years to come instead they're taking this wackadoo and making her close to as powerful as the Spectre...I'll bet this goes somewhere in the long run.

[Lädderlappen]

Spoilers concerning infinite crisis and Kingdom come.


I could also see infinite Crisis turning in to a war between humans and meta-humans, with Batman leading the humans and Superman standing up for the super humans. Very much Kingdom come with other words. Although the death of blue beetle should make the heroes come together, I’m sure Maxwell Lord could stop that, taking control of Batman’s mind or something.


But this is probably way to much Kingdom come and to over used, it would still be cool to sea real showdown between the two friends Superman and Batman and there armies. Which after all didn’t get to see in Kingdom come.

[Symphony of Six]

I do almost have a feeling going against what I said earlier about Wonder Woman dying. I think the outcome of this story will have the "big three" splitting up in a sense...cause it has been said that this story in a way revolves around them being the center characters of the DC universe that they are and how Batman will grow even more secluded and alone than he already is.

[jonsnow]

Ok here is one. We know there is a traitor on the Outsiders. I think it is Shift, but here is why it will become important in the crisis. My history of Metamorpho is shoddy, but I do know he has some tie to Stagg, and if I am not mistaken Max Lord was on the phone with Stagg in Countdown. Could be random, may not be. I just think that Shift is going to end up being a purposful splice of Metamorpho, and he did show up during Graduation Day.

[bones]

Alright, I'm setting up this thread for anybody to lay down their two cents on what they think is going to happen in Infinite crisis and even the Countdowns leading up to it. So remember I'm sure we'll have to use a large amount of spoilers :shhh: so the editorial police don't come after us...anyways...anyone who reads most of my posts knows I like to go out on a limb in a lot of cases I'm wrong but recently I've been right about two things that have to do with this thread and that is the revelations of SPOILERS Blue Beetles death & the return of Jason Todd. Putting aside the obvious and including the rumor mill...both of these events have a powerful effect on Infinite Crisis.

So here's the speculations I'm starting this thread with...I'm going to put them under spoilers until I'm told differently because I don't want to catch fire from a certain person who deals with spoilers...who I also hope adds to this discussion...anyways...here goes...and I am going out on a major limb with one of these...

SPOILERS I know for a fact much as I stated that Blue Beetle was going to die that Booster Gold without a doubt has a huge part to play in the Infinite Crisis. He is from the future and I don't think this is like the X-Men futures that you never know will really happen...Hence, Booster Gold knows exactly what's going on and like I stated on another board he either let Blue Beetle die to serve the greater purpose...or he knows he's coming back more powerful (the scarab). It's obvious to me he put himself in the line of fire to let Blue Beetle solve or figure out that it was Max Lord pulling the strings behind OMAC & whatever checkmate has to do with the whole thing. Now this could come off as blasphemy to the major DC fans and I now consider myself one of them. But I've read that this "Crisis" will focus around the big three and how powerful & iconic they really are in the DCU...but, I have a strong feeling (this going off of Geoff Johns claim that people WILL DIE.) that Wonder Woman might be nearing her end as a goddess...I remind you this is my personal speculation...I think this has a lot to do with the return of Donna Troy...I might even go out on a limb and say that with the events of the future issue of Teen Titans something could happen to Batman with the return of Jason Todd and how Tim Drake took the mantle and it was only explained that it was because of Alfred's death...I could also go out on a limb because of the same storyline that something is going to happen to Superman because of Superboy having Lex Luthor's genes and the upcoming crossover of Teen Titans & Outsiders...The only death I think will happen is Wonder Womans out of these three...the Superman and Batman theories I think will have some relevance to the story.


Like I say these are only speculations so anybody who wants to tell me differently or has the balls to go out on a limb...speak to me my friends...


booster is from a future timeline that doesn't exist anymore because of the legion retcon.

[Blake Petit]

Here's a new, interesting little tidbit. Newsarama is reporting that the Rann/Thanagar War miniseries is going to spin into a new series this September, Green Lantern Corps: Recharge, about the Oa-based GLs (Kyle, Guy, Kilowog and Salaak) rebuilding the Corps. Veeeeery interestink.

[ForeverZeroV1]

that had me interested i may even pick up that and thangarian war just because im a bit of a kyle fan

[jonsnow]

Great news.

[Jason Kanno]

Whatever happened to John Stewart?

[Downfall]

Whatever happened to John Stewart?

He's still a GL, in fact he was in Rebirth. He's just taking a backseat to Hal and Kyle, I guess.

[Blake Petit]

He's still a GL, in fact he was in Rebirth. He's just taking a backseat to Hal and Kyle, I guess.

He's probably going to stay in the JLA, at least as long as the Justice League cartoon is on the air.

[Jason Kanno]

Makes sense enough.

Here's something interesting and a little frustrating. It appears that the upcoming "Sacrifice" crossover in the Superman titles is going to tie into the OMAC Project. So that means if I pick up OMAC, I should pick up 3 Superman titles and Wonder Woman in a SINGLE MONTH. Well, that's not happening.

[Chapel]

I don't see WW dying. She is about to get her sight back and I don't see what the point would of killing her after such a big event.

As for Donna Troy In the Teen Titians issue where they met their future selves Donna was party of the Flash legacy I don't think she will ever replace WW. If anything it would be Wonder Girl who is being groomed to take up the mantle.

I don't think Booster Gold let Blue Bettle get hurt. I think he knew what was about to happen and tried to change history by dying in place of his best friend, now however that Booster has change the course of his story all bets are off. I read the post saying that Booster's timeline doesn't exist any more, but just because his exact timeline isn't going to happen doesn't mean some of the "past" event Booster would know about wouldn't still happen.

I think the Big Three are going to get closer, not farther apart. I think the Crisis is going to force them to work more closely as a team and as a familiy than ever. As of right now the "Trinity" is already split, because of Superman's revelation about Dr. Light and Batman; and WW's "solution" to Superman's villian problems. I say this partly because Loeb, who was influencial in IC, seems intent on making Superman and Batman more like brothers instead of just grudgingly respectful allies.

Question: Do you think Batman built brother? Because something like that seems a little out of his league.

[Blake Petit]

Hmm..

Did Batman build brother? Probably not alone, but he's got plenty of people he could have worked with on that. Robin (Tim) is a master computer hacker, and Bruce can afford the most sophisticated computer equipment in the world. He's smart enough, even, to have different employees at WayneTech working on different parts of it, not knowing what they were really doing, and then putting the whole thing together himself.

[klwiggs]

The OMAC Project #1 Spoiler Alert Even if Batman didn't build brother, it seems he had some involvement as he has no contact with it anymore. Who has the computer wizardry to lock out Batman?

[jonsnow]

Answer to that one KLwiggs is probably Calculator, Luthor, maybe Talia through Ra's fortune. Or aside from the usual villains it could just be a rogue government agency. As rich as Bruce is, he cannot out spend the government. Thas all I have for now, but I am really enjoying just the speculation this story has already brought

[klwiggs]

That would be my first guess, but my gut feeling says thats too easy. I think there is a curve ball behind it. Superman/Batman #19 Spoiler Alert Plus the calculator was watching Supergirl quite a bit analyzing her in Superman/Batman 19. Luthor and them seem really focused on her at the moment and I think she could play a big part in IC.

[Mark Blicharz]

I have a strong feeling Jean is going to be the Spectre. Or maybe even Ralph.

[klwiggs]

How would it work out, Jean becoming the Spectre as Day of Vengance #1 Spoiler Alertshe is controlled by Eclipso at the moment? Plus Eclipso is manipulating the Specte to destroy those with magic

[Symphony of Six]

I think the Big Three are going to get closer, not farther apart. I think the Crisis is going to force them to work more closely as a team and as a familiy than ever.

After seeing the cover to Omac #4 I'd seriouly doubt that...It looks like Wonder Woman's about to hand Batman a can of Whoop ***...and Superman is either getting into it with her or holding her back. DiDido has said that Batman IS going to grow more secluded after all this. As far as Wonder Woman dying I'll take back what I said earlier since reading further stories connected to crisis. I do think now that the Return of Donna Troy and Jason Todds recent return may be related but I don't know how she died so I'm probably wrong. As far as Booster goes I think his importance is still yet to play out...My speculations will probably change with each coming issue but alot of them have remained the same.

[Cardiac]

After seeing the cover to Omac #4 I'd seriouly doubt that...It looks like Wonder Woman's about to hand Batman a can of Whoop ***...and Superman is either getting into it with her or holding her back. DiDido has said that Batman IS going to grow more secluded after all this. As far as Wonder Woman dying I'll take back what I said earlier since reading further stories connected to crisis. I do think now that the Return of Donna Troy and Jason Todds recent return may be related but I don't know how she died so I'm probably wrong. As far as Booster goes I think his importance is still yet to play out...My speculations will probably change with each coming issue but alot of them have remained the same.

Referring to upcoming covers is a spoiler I think.

[jonsnow]

Oh I would be greatly disappointed is Supergirl did not play a huge role in the upcoming crisis. And I agree I doubt Checkmate is just a rogue Govertnment Agency, but hey weirder things have happened.

[jonsnow]

Ok If you look at OMAC #2 cover, the dude looking at the vid screen looks a bit to bald to be Max Lord, Luthor perhaps? Who knows, again just speculation. Also, where did you get a view of Omac #4 cover symphony?

[Blake Petit]

AHEM.

Friendly reminder -- when you're spoiling a specific issue, such as Superman/Batman #19 or Day of Vengeance #1, SAY what issue you're spoiling so that people who haven't read it yet and don't want to be spoiled can pass it by. Otherwise it's pointless.

[Symphony of Six]

Where did you get a view of Omac #4 cover symphony?
Here you go man, enjoy.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32705

Omac #4 has to be my favorite cover I've seen out of the Mini's so far...beautiful art work.

[klwiggs]

Great covers, it just gets me more hyped and impatient wanting to read them now instead of later.

[Fanatix]

I'm trying to keep up with everything, and the dc crisis counseling helps fill me in on issues I didn't pick up this week. But it feels like i've missed a lot more history than I thought so i've got some questions.

1. Okay, I haven't read a batfamily solo title since war games- at which time nightwing was all upset about what happaned with blockbuster and tarantula and couldn't bring himself to tell batman. Did he ever do it and what was batman (and robin if he knows) reaction?
2. I did however, pick up some batman issues this week to see this much talked about red hood, and in the issue. In it, nightwing comments on that they can't call oracle anymore and batman says theyve become too dependent on her? What the heck happaned there? When did a feud between batman and barbara start, and why is batman pissed, barbara was the one treated like a secretary forerver. And...if there is a rift between the two, is it possible she might be the one blocking batman from the brother satelite?!
3. (batman spoiler) When did batman find out he'd been mind wiped? It's hardly a spoiler anymore that he knows. Hints have been dropping for months. Have they revealed how and when he found out or is that being left for the upcoming JLA series that deals with the identity crisis fallout.?

And I agree that batman and superman are being pushed together to be more like brothers, maybe even having superman become more secluded in his actions like batman. I mean, when superman finds out what they did to bruce you think he's gonna be happy? He's gonna be just as pissed as batman. We could see a JLA without either batman or superman by the end of the year. Maybe thats why the batman/superman comic was started, because they knew they wouldn't be able to tell tales of the duo in JLA anymore.

And heres some speculation/question/spoiler (superman/bats#19) In superman/batman lex had on his armor again. The one he said he'd gotten for his "boy" in teen titans awhile back. Along with this theres a bunch of different colored kryptonite on it. What's this mean? In an upcomming titans arc connor explores his lex heritage but does he take the suit and use it against the other super-ppl?

[Blake Petit]

I'm asking again, PLEASE, when you put a spoiler up, SAY WHICH BOOK YOU ARE SPOILING.

[Symphony of Six]

Alright I just had an idea...Superman/Batman #19, DC Countdown, Batman Spoilers In the new issue of Superman/Batman Luthor IS wearing different colors of Kryptonite on his armor...In Countdown they alluded to it being stolen right...and in Batman we know that it was stolen by Red Hood or Jason Todd... So I think all the issues are really starting to come together more clearly to fit into Infinite Crisis.

Oh and Fanatix the Batman knowing about his mind wiping question...They've been dropping hints in all the books otherwise Geoff Johns is mainly going to deal with it in JLA.

Upcoming JLA spoilers In the new wizard they have a preview of the JLA arguing over telling Batman being the right thing to do...The Flash is the person that wants to tell him...It also turns out they wiped Martian Manhunters...or blocked his mind from ever knowing about any of this...so he's going to be on Batman's side.

[Blake Petit]

Thanks, SOS.

I shall read your spoiler after I get my comics this afternoon. :D

[Symphony of Six]

No problem Blake...Word of advice cause I know how you don't like spoilers...DO NOT read the JLA spoiler unless you want to wreck it. ;)

[Blake Petit]

So noted. :D

[Bigby Wolf]

I had a thought today on who may be the new Blue Beetle. I think it may be Booster. Eventually when he finds out about Ted's death I think he will mature more and want to take over for his pal and become the new Beetle, he also showed some interest in the scarab in DC Countdown.

[bugsypal86]

First off Fanatix
1.For those that haven't read Nightwing before it went to year one, Nightwing actually turned himself into the cops along with Tarantula, it is now not really even mentioned, there was no really settling with Batman or Robin.
2.For those that didn't read War GamesIn the War Games story arc in concluded in the clock tower being destroyed and Oracle being taken out of business, there isn't a fued its just Barbara isn't acting as the Oracle any longer.
3.In case someone didn't read Identity Crisis (if you didn't then what are you thinking) In the Identity Crisis story, at least how I read it, Batman and Superman have known for a long time they have just done nothing about it.
4. And about your spoiler,the different colored kryptonite is from Superman/Batman supergirl story arc in which when she came to earth a large peice of kryponite came and shattered into multiple peices. As of yet we don't know what the different colors do or if they do anything different for that matter.

[Fanatix]

Thanks for the help bugsypal

[Downfall]

He's probably going to stay in the JLA, at least as long as the Justice League cartoon is on the air.

No, apparently, Hal is back as the JLA's Gl (heh.) as of Geoff Johns storyarc.

[Blake Petit]

I had a thought today on who may be the new Blue Beetle. I think it may be Booster. Eventually when he finds out about Ted's death I think he will mature more and want to take over for his pal and become the new Beetle, he also showed some interest in the scarab in DC Countdown.

I've been thinking the same thing, actually... this will be interesting.

[Mark Blicharz]

I can't wait to see the rest of the JLA's reaction to hearing about Ted's death. Should make for a really interesting read.

[AmazingMattMan]

concering batman and the mind wipe from identity crisis, with some stuff from countdown. safe to read if you have read both:
i think he just figured it out around countdown. he heard that light was mindwiped and he probably had a funny feeling about that day. from what it looked liked, he was viewing survalence (spelling?!) of the watchtower. i wouldnt put it past batman to put hidden devices in there. so im thinking he actually saw them mindwipe them.

[lennygray]

Just a few speculations... read at your peril...
A new Spectre... Jean Loring? Booster Gold? Jason Todd?
It could develop that Jean Loring was already under Eclipso's control when she murdered Sue Dibny. Booster is now a person without a past/future...he's lost his best friend, found Dan Garrett's blue beetle stone and looking to kick ***. Jason Todd was revived in one of Ras' pits, likely by Luthor, and after reforming, HE becomes the new Spectre... if so, Joker had better watch out!
Who built Brother? I'd say Oracle, but her mind was wiped, so she doesn't remember doing so.
Any of the Big 3 going anywhere? Not on your life... all three have new movies in the works and their franchises are far too important to Warner.
The future of Superboy? Kon-L does explore his "dark side" but eventually comes to terms with his genetic heritage. He'll change his heroic ID, though.
My personal vote for the new Spectre, what with Hal's return? Jon Stewart. Think about it! A major hero at loose ends with a tragic past tormenting him. I'd say he's perfect for the role. Cartoons can be changed, folks...

"They're ALL imaginary stories!"

[lennygray]

as to Titans continuity and the Future-Titans...

as I've always understood the way time is handled in DC continuity, any future is a POSSIBLE future, but not inevitable. Therefore, the Legion exists in a POSSIBLE future, same as the Future Titans and the Flash dynasty and the Superman/Batman Generations stories...

[klwiggs]

Jean Loring, Booster Gold and John Stewart cannot be the next Spectre. The next host of the Spectre has to be dead and their soul has to be stuck in purgatory. Jason Todd becoming the Spectre depends if he was really dead in the first place. The next Spectre is likely to be Blue Beetle, Sue Dibny or maybe even Barry Allen.

[Mark Blicharz]

Nothing is saying none of those won't die by the time the new Spectre takes power.

[Blake Petit]

The next Spectre is likely to be Blue Beetle, Sue Dibny or maybe even Barry Allen.

None of these people qualify to be the Spectre. The spirit of vengeance finds its host with a soul in need of redemption -- these are three good, heroic spirits who died without a need to be redeemed.

And Goku is right, it would be easy enough to kill off a living character to make him/her the Spectre.

I actually think Stephanie Brown might make an interesting choice.

SPOILER FOR BATMAN: This month's Batman, while still smarting from the whole Jason Todd revelation, was quite good. Watching how Bruce was relating to his supposed teammates -- Green Arrow and Zatanna -- shows exactly how the whole mindwipe is effecting him. Something occurred to me while reading this issue, though. Unless Winick is making a continuity error, we know that Jason Todd at least was dead, because we saw him in Heaven with Barry Allen and Oliver Queen during the "Quiver" storyline.

[Mark Blicharz]

Doesn't mean it was him in that storyline. Clone, body double, it's a comic, anything could have happened there.

[Blake Petit]

Doesn't mean it was him in that storyline. Clone, body double, it's a comic, anything could have happened there.

I don't know about that... A clone or a body double in HEAVEN? You're saying that God would have let a fake Jason in and not noticed?

[Mark Blicharz]

Oops, forgot it was in Heaven. He was definitely dead then. I haven't read that book in a while. Did they actually say it was in Heaven? If not it could have been something else.

[Blake Petit]

Oops, forgot it was in Heaven. He was definitely dead then. I haven't read that book in a while. Did they actually say it was in Heaven? If not it could have been something else.

The Spectre brought the Oliver Queen "Quiver" to Heaven, where he met Barry Allen, the REAL Oliver Queen, and the character in question. Then, Ollie came back and inhabited his body again. If it wasn't Heaven, they were pulling a scam on a LOT of people. ;)

[Mark Blicharz]

Ok, then I have no clue what the hell is going on with Jason being back.

[Blake Petit]

Frankly, I'm guessing that the DC editors just forgot that he was in that issue...

[Mark Blicharz]

Probably did.

[Symphony of Six]

BATMAN SPOILERSIn the new issue Batman brought up the question if it is possible for the dead to be brought back...so if it is that explains Jason Todd in heaven and his resurection...so to speak.

[Blake Petit]

If that is, indeed, the case. We're going to have to wait to get the explanation to know anything for sure.

[Blake Petit]

Furthering the Infinite Crisis speculation engine, Phil Jimenez has said (in a Newsarama interview) that Donna Troy will be the leader in an important upcoming battle. You know, I've almost reached a point here where I'm considering The Return of Donna Troy to be a fifth IC-Countdown miniseries. I suspect it's going to play a significant part in what's coming.

[Symphony of Six]

DC confirmed at one point that it is an Infinite Crisis Mini...it's just put aside somehow from the main 4 coming out now. They also said that the new DC universe was going to be shaped by six minis which is Omac, Villians, Rann, DoV, RoDT, & Infinite Crisis.

[Blake Petit]

Yeah, I know... plus everything that's happened in Identity Crisis, Adam Strange, Green Lantern: Rebirth, Superman/Batman, the recent Superman/Captain Marvel storyline, etc. I've actually reached a point where I'm putting aside every DC title that I suspect even may have a tie to Infinite Crisis so that I can try to read the whole thing again at bulk near the end. :)

[Symphony of Six]

That's hardcore Blake...How much time do you have set aside to read all those issues?...a week?...a month? Just don't become a hermit. :LOL:

[Blake Petit]

:LOL: I haven't even thought about how long it's going to take. I may wait until I get the second-to-last issue of Infinite Crisis and then see if I can read everything I've got in one fell swoop. :D In fact, it might be a good idea to start a list here of everything that I'm putting into that stack, just to see if anyone has any further suggestions and to further stir up debate. :) Yeah, I think I'm gonna do that when I get home from work.

[Symphony of Six]

I'll join you with that list...then we can all see what titles truly did matter. ;)

[Blake Petit]

Indeed. :)

And I should note, I'm only going to list stuff that has really solid, clear ties and not just tangiental connections. For instance SPOILERS FOR SUPERMAN/BATMAN & BATMAN We know that the Kryptonite meteors that came to Earth with Supergirl have turned up in the Red Hood's possession, but I'm not sure if I believe that's going to have a direct link to IC, so I haven't included those issues in my stack o' stuff.

[Symphony of Six]

See in my list I would include that kind of stuff...the things that seem to allude to something on the horizon.

[Blake Petit]

I'll agree it's an allusion, but I don't know if it's a direct allusion to IC -- I think it's more likely building up to stories in the Batman and Superman titles.

Of course, something could happen in the next five months which makes it clear that it's pointing exactly at Infinite Crisis, at which point I'll pull all those issues over into the stack with the rest of them. :D

[Symphony of Six]

Are you going to go back as far as Graduation Day or simply start at Identity Crisis?

[Blake Petit]

I'm starting with Identity Crisis. Going back to Graduation Day would involve a search through my comic collection that even I'm not prepared to devote that much time to. :LOL:

[Symphony of Six]

Alright...one more thing...Are we talking about every issue of an arc or certain title after that or only contained issues that has significance to it. The last arc of Teen Titans is a good example of an entire arc but if you think of the Adventures of Superman #636, it seems that was the only issue that had a direct connection.

[Blake Petit]

I'm taking that on a case-by-case basis. I include the last four issues of Titans (19 dealt with Robin losing his dad, 20-22 dealt with Dr. Light), but just the one issue of AoS.

[Jason Kanno]

Based on what DC has been saying over the past few months, Infinite Crisis is going to revolve around the Big Three, unlike most of the build up, which has focused on the B- and C-listers. With Sacrifice coming up, and all that's going on in the Bat-titles SPOILER From what I hear, Black Mask now has the Kryptonite... there's going to be some big time trouble between the three of them.

[Symphony of Six]

Hey Blake, DC was on the ball...they must have saw we were discussing which issues lead into crisis got together in a manner of hours...and made a book...stamped a cover price of $5.99 on it...took a bunch of stories that lead into Infinite Crisis...titled it Prelude To Crisis...and sent the news to Newsarama...Man, those guys are good. :joker:

[Blake Petit]

WHAT?

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Man, we are good, aren't we? :D

[Symphony of Six]

The thing that really catches my eye is the Superman Secret Files 2004...I don't have that so I'm wonderin' what's important in it.

[Blake Petit]

I'm surprised that the Flash/WW two-parter is that important. I guess I'm adding that to the books I'm setting aside in the "Crisis" file. :D

[Jason Kanno]

I really want to get it but its SIX FREAKIN' DOLLARS. I also heard people predicting that Marvel is going to do the same thing with House of M... but considering it comes out next month...

[Blake Petit]

Dude, six dollars for a 96-page book with no ads. That's twice as much money as a normal comic, with almost four times as much content. It's well worth the price.

[Jason Kanno]

Yeah, I just realized my load next month is two books light. I'M GETTIN' IT!

[Blake Petit]

:LOL: -- Glad to hear it! :)

[Adam Chapman]

Here's the cover for said comic.

[Blake Petit]

Okay, I'm ready to tackle this. Here are all of the books I've pulled aside as having clear, identifiable links to Identity Crisis, DC Countdown and Infinite Crisis. In as close to chronological order as I can figure. And I've put the spoilers in white text, so you know the drill.

Superman Secret Files 2004
Identity Crisis #1-3
Flash #214-215 Wally learns Barry's secret
Identity Crisis #4
Manhunter #5 Manhunter goes after Shadow Thief, who "killed" Firestorm in IC #4
Firestorm #6 Jason Rusch discovers Ronnie Raymond's fate
Identity Crisis #5
JSA #67 Dr. Light's autopsy of Sue Dibney
Identity Crisis #6-7
Flash #216-217 Wally tries to atone for Barry's sin, funeral of Captain Cold
Adam Strange #1-7 (8 hasn't come out yet) Leads into Rann/Thanagar War
Teen Titans #20 Robin copes with his father's death
Adventures of Superman #636 The Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman summit
Flash #219/Wonder Woman #214 The connection is unclear, but as it will be in the Prelude to Infinite Crisis TPB, it's clear it belongs here
There's a breaking point here somewhere. In the stories that take place after this point, Wonder Woman's sight has been restored, something that has yet to happen in her own title.
Teen Titans #21-23 Titans face Dr. Light, who is taken away as the story leads directly into Villains United
Green Lantern: Rebirth #1-5 (6 isn't out yet) Hal is separated from the Spectre, leading into Day of Vengeance
DC Countdown #1
The OMAC Project #1
Action Comics #826/Adventures of Superman #639/Superman #216 Superman & Captain Marvel vs. Eclipso, leads into Day of Vengeance
Day of Vengeance #1
Villains United #1

I'll add to this list as more books come out. Let the great debate begin. :D

[klwiggs]

Just looking at the Prelude to Infinite Crisis cover, it seems like it will go all the way back to the first Superman/Batman arc.

[Jason Kanno]

And according to Geoff Johns and co., it really goes back to the death of Donna Troy.

[Blake Petit]

And according to Geoff Johns and co., it really goes back to the death of Donna Troy.

Yeah, they say they've been planning it since Graduation Day. I didn't go that far back in my list, though, because attempting to sift through the last two and a half years worth of DC Comics would make my brain melt. :D

[Jason Kanno]

Man, Geoff Johns is really starting to load everything on himself. JSA, Flash, Teen Titans, Green Lantern, Infinite Crisis... I hope he doesn't burn himself out like Bendis has.

And after checking out a preview of the John's Green Lantern, I might just have to pick it up. Actually, I have to decide whether to pick that up, or Dave Gibbons's GL Corps.

[lennygray]

this won't be your daddy's Secret Society of Super-Villains, for sure!

so why does Mockingbird make me think of the original Secret Six?

[Kevin Reeves]

Speculation concerning VILLAINS UNITED, THE OMAC PROJECT, JLA, & BATGIRL titles, & an already-released VILLAINS UNITED #1 spoiler:
I think the big three are going to be torn apart on an interpersonal/self-proclaimedly ethical level, with Supes, WW, & Batman all being unhappy with one another for some reason or another. MEANWHILE, the DCU villains are aligning & becoming more organized. The JLA will be falling apart, while the JLA's villains are going to do just the opposite. The palpable editorial direction of the entire DCU is a darkening of the generally "bright" characters...JLA, & the big three in specific...and an empathizing with the "dark" characters--such as Dr. Light, who has some justification in being so upset! I don't know exactly how it will relate to the CRISIS just yet, but I think that Batgirl's upcoming search for her long-lost mother is going to end with Lady Shiva as her Mom....reading old trade paperbacks of early BATGIRL issues, it's pretty obvious to me that Cain, Batgirl's Father, was surprised that Bruce did NOT see the connection between Shiva & Cass early on when watching videos etc. And if Cass is Shiva's daughter, it just further darkens another DCU hero(ine). My biggest question right now is WHO IS MOCKINGBIRD?!? It could be the Braniac-possessed Barbara Gordon, or even Lex Luthor himself trying to keep anonymous tabs on the folks who declined the Villains Society "invitation." Hmmm.....who is "mocking" the villains...one of their own, or someone else?

[Terry Verticchio]

On that Prelude cover, who's the vampire guy on the top left corner and what does he have to do with anything?

[Adam Chapman]

On that Prelude cover, who's the vampire guy on the top left corner and what does he have to do with anything?

POSSIBLE SPOILERSIt's Jean Loring, the Atom's wife who was responsible for the death of Sue Dibny last year in Identity Crisis. She's the host of Eclipso now, I believe, which is detailed in Day of Vengeance and at the end of the recent Captain Marvel/Superman team-up that went through the core Superman books.

[Terry Verticchio]

POSSIBLE SPOILERSIt's Jean Loring, the Atom's wife who was responsible for the death of Sue Dibny last year in Identity Crisis. She's the host of Eclipso now, I believe, which is detailed in Day of Vengeance and at the end of the recent Captain Marvel/Superman team-up that went through the core Superman books.

Wow, sucks for her. Well at least she's still got a gig in comics.

[Symphony of Six]

Just a thought...

Now I don't know if this stood out to me because of the number 6 but here goes. So far in each group that has been formed in the countdowns there is six. For example:

Shadowpact
1. Ragman
2. Enchantress
3. Detective Chimp
4. Nightshade
5. Nightmaster
6. Blue Devil

Secret Society of Super-Villians
1. Lex Luthor
2. Deathstroke
3. Talia Al Ghul
4. Doctor Psycho
5. Black Adam
6. The Calculator

Secret Six
1. Deadshot
2. Catman
3. Cheshire
4. Parademon
5. Scandal
6. Ragdoll

And in villians united Mockingbird proclaimed "The Six...the chosen." Coincedence...I don't know...just a speculation anyhow. I also have a theory as to who Mockingbird is but I'm not going to take the HUGE chance of putting my foot in mouth...then again who saw the Maxwell Lord twist?

[Blake Petit]

I don't know if there's necessarily any significance to the number six -- it's just a good, solid number for a team -- enough characters to have a really disparate mix but not so many that it gets bogged down.

[Symphony of Six]

:shame: Probably...we'll see.

Dig the List Blake...I couldn't get started on mine cause I was being lazy half the weekend and doing work in the yard the other half. I especially dig the chronological order. Those were all issues that I would have thrown in also...except for Manhunter, Firestorm, & Adam Strange but that's simply because I don't have them. I did call my shop and have them pull Superman Secret Files & Origins over the weekend and it turned out it was thier last copy so I got lucky. :D

[Blake Petit]

Yes, I do endeavor to do my best. :D

I have a sneaking suspicion I'll have to add to that list every week for the rest of the year.

[LEGENDKILLER]

Hmmmmm three new teams form with 6 members each....666...wonder if that means there is a Devil lurking in the shadows of the Infinite Crisis?

[klwiggs]

Its a conspiracy, man. :LOL:

[Blake Petit]

Geez, I'd like to think DC wouldn't have Neron behind it all...

[LEGENDKILLER]

Geez, I'd like to think DC wouldn't have Neron behind it all...

Dont say that name, I have tried for years to supress the memories of that foul demon.

[Symphony of Six]

Hmmmmm three new teams form with 6 members each....666...wonder if that means there is a Devil lurking in the shadows of the Infinite Crisis?
You know I thought that for a second too but then I figured that would be pretty damn lame. I still would like to know why the Secret Six is the Chosen though. I also think there is going to be more groups of six formed...like a new JLA anybody? :yes:

[LEGENDKILLER]

You know I thought that for a second too but then I figured that would be pretty damn lame. I still would like to know why the Secret Six is the Chosen though. I also think there is going to be more groups of six formed...like a new JLA anybody? :yes:

Well the Secret six is one of those classic teams, Kinda like how they have brought back the Seven Soldiers.
I think DC has finally realized how good of Characters and teams they have had over the past 60 years, and they are at long last using them for something.

[Blake Petit]

I think DC's finally got the creators who respect those classic concepts and given them the freedom to play with them again.

[klwiggs]

These reasons are why I think DC will do better than Marvel this year.

[Downfall]

These reasons are why I think DC will do better than Marvel this year.
They already have been smoking Marvel in reprintings, sales, story qulaity, and just, well, overall in my opinion.

And hey, Blake, in the list, you said that th connection between Flash 219-Wonder Woman 214 and Infinite Cris wasn't clear? I disagree, at the end, Dr. Psycho basically offered Zoom membership to the Villains United... Society... thing...

[Blake Petit]

That's true, Bryan, and that would explain putting a few pages in the TPB. But I don't think that little bit is enough to justify the entire two-part story being reprinted. I think there must be more going on there than we're aware of.

[Downfall]

That's true, Bryan, and that would explain putting a few pages in the TPB. But I don't think that little bit is enough to justify the entire two-part story being reprinted. I think there must be more going on there than we're aware of.
Hmmm... nope... just that and Cheetah asking Zoom if he wants to get mindwiped like Dr. Light, that's it.

[Symphony of Six]

Yeah as far as the crossover there's nothing other than the very end that had me going for the Prelude...me's a thinkin' that Zoom may play a significant part in the Crisis or atleast prelude so I'm guessing there's also going to be something going on in Rogue War that we have to keep an eye out for also.

[Blake Petit]

Hmmm... nope... just that and Cheetah asking Zoom if he wants to get mindwiped like Dr. Light, that's it.

Still not enough, boyo. There's gotta be more there.

[Downfall]

Nuh-uh. I re-read it last night. Tha's it.

[Blake Petit]

:rolleyes: Do read what I said more carefully.

I think there must be more going on there than we're aware of

If it was obvious we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Downfall]

Ah. My bad.

...now where did I put my Blake incinerating missile launcher?

[Mark Blicharz]

I took it and changed it to the Bryan incinerating missile launcher.

[Jason Kanno]

They already have been smoking Marvel in reprintings, sales, story qulaity, and just, well, overall in my opinion.

And hey, Blake, in the list, you said that th connection between Flash 219-Wonder Woman 214 and Infinite Cris wasn't clear? I disagree, at the end, Dr. Psycho basically offered Zoom membership to the Villains United... Society... thing...

Ok, DC has had overall better creative quality, but Marvel still beats them sales-wise, and Marvel doesn't reprint enough for them to really care. However, given the quality of Uncanny X-Men and X-Men alone... Marvel shouldn't be winning anything.

[AmazingMattMan]

hey thats a cool idea by dc, especially since i havent read alot of those issues.

[Blake Petit]

Okay, according to DC, here's a partial list of issues that will contribute "pages or panels" to "Prelude to Infinite Crisis:"

Action Comics #826
Superman #216
Adventures of Superman #630
Adventures of Superman #638
Superman/Batman #6
Green Lantern: Rebirth #4
Titans/Young Justice Graduation Day
Teen Titans #18
Teen Titans #19
Teen Titans #21
Teen Titans #23
JSA #58
JSA #70
JSA #72
Robin #135
Outsiders #21
Outsiders #22
Manhunter #6
Aquaman #29
Birds of Prey #80
Adam Strange #8

Hmm. Robin, Aquaman and Birds of Prey are the only ones that I find particularly surprising. Curiouser and curiouser...

[Jason Kanno]

Check DCcomics.com. They have a list of books and what happened in them.

[Blake Petit]

Okay, let's update as of this week...

Superman Secret Files 2004 (The connection is unclear, but as it will be in the upcoming Prelude to Infinite Crisis TPB, it belongs here)
Identity Crisis #1-3
Flash #214-215 (Wally learns Barry's secret)
Identity Crisis #4
Manhunter #5 (Manhunter goes after Shadow Thief, who "killed" Firestorm in IC #4)
Firestorm #6 (Jason Rusch discovers Ronnie Raymond's fate)
Identity Crisis #5
JSA #67 (Dr. Light's autopsy of Sue Dibney)
Identity Crisis #6-7
Flash #216-217 (Wally tries to atone for Barry's sin, funeral of Captain Cold)
Adam Strange #1-8 (Leads into Rann/Thanagar War)
Teen Titans #20 (Robin copes with his father's death)
Adventures of Superman #636 (The Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman summit)
Flash #219/Wonder Woman #214 (Same deal as Superman Secret Files 2004)
There's a breaking point here somewhere. In the stories that take place after this point, Wonder Woman's sight has been restored, something that has yet to happen in her own title.
Teen Titans #21-23 (Titans face Dr. Light, who is taken away as the story leads directly into Villains United)
Green Lantern: Rebirth #1-6 (Hal is separated from the Spectre, leading into Day of Vengeance, Kyle and Kilowog spin into Rann/Thanagar War)
DC Countdown #1
The OMAC Project #1
Action Comics #826/Adventures of Superman #639/Superman #216 (Superman & Captain Marvel vs. Eclipso, leads into Day of Vengeance)
Day of Vengeance #1
Villains United #1
Rann/Thanagar War #1

[AmazingMattMan]

the birds of prey one was wierd. i dont remember seeing any hints or clues. thought it was just your basic issue. hmmm. imma have to read it over. well either that or the ramifications of that issue are gonna be felt soon in the wider sense

[Symphony of Six]

I'm starting to think Pete Ross has something to do with Infinite Crisis...that's the only connection that I can make from the secret files & origins. I think it might be possible that he is Ruin. I also think that Wonder Woman is going to probably kill Ruin.That is what is going to cause the confrontation between her and Superman. Also in the new Wonder Woman (I was unsure cause it was only my third issue) but isn't that Lex Luthor & Pete Rossnext to the statue of that boy? Who is the boy anyways?

[Blake Petit]

SoS --

ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN & WONDER WOMAN SPOILERS
I think that Pete Ross is waaaaaay too obvious a choice for Ruin. The last time either of them showed up they were practically waving a sign that pointed to him, which immediately makes me think he's a red herring. Plus it'd just tick me off.

And no, that wasn't Lex and Pete in Wonder Woman, and that wasn't a statue either. Those are members of Diana's staff at the embassy and the "statue" was the bald one's son, who was turned to stone when Medusae attacked.

[Symphony of Six]

Thanks for the clarification on Wonder Woman Blake...although what exactly is a Red Herring?

[Blake Petit]

No need to put that in spoilers, SoS. :) A "red herring" is a term for something an author creates as a distraction. For example, if I wrote a murder mystery and left a lot of clues pointing towards one character as being the murderer, but then it turned out that somebody else was the killer, that first character is a red herring.

IDENTITY CRISIS SPOILER: A perfect example of this? When everyone thought that the Atom was the killer at the end of IC #6, but then it turned out that Jean was the murderer, using his equipment. The Atom, in this story, was a red herring.

And please don't ask me where the term "red herring" originated -- I have no idea. :LOL:

[Symphony of Six]

:] Garsh Blake...

**looks to the ground and starts kicking dirt**

...yous gots yerself an edjamacashun. :joker:

Seriously though, I can see what you mean...but DC's had so many kick in the face suprises recently maybe they'll throw in an obvious one.

[WhereIsTony]

The Phrase "Red Herring" originates from the practice of dragging fish across a trail to mislead hunting dogs. Leading them on a false trail.

:rolleyes:

[Blake Petit]

The Phrase "Red Herring" originates from the practice of dragging fish across a trail to mislead hunting dogs. Leading them on a false trail.

:rolleyes:

Ah, thanks Tony. I've always wondered that myself. ;)

:cue music and "The More You Know" logo:

[AmazingMattMan]

damn! i was scrolling down reading these, saw blakes question and i saw an opportunity to share some trivia! then whereistony comes along and bam! ruined my possible moment of glory! :hulk: haha

so heres a question thats back on topic for you guys:

we know whats going on in the several prelude mini series, but what do you guys think might happen in the actual infinite crisis book? wild guesses or educated guesses welcome

[Symphony of Six]

The August DC solicits are out and on the cover of Wonder Woman it shows her getting handcuffed and taken away.so I'm thinking that she is going to kill someone that Superman knows and that is going to cause the rift between them.

[Blake Petit]

Don't mind me. Jus' updatin' the list. ;)

Superman Secret Files 2004 (The connection is unclear, but as it will be in the upcoming Prelude to Infinite Crisis TPB, it belongs here)
Identity Crisis #1-3
Flash #214-215 (Wally learns Barry's secret)
Identity Crisis #4
Manhunter #5 (Manhunter goes after Shadow Thief, who "killed" Firestorm in IC #4)
Firestorm #6 (Jason Rusch discovers Ronnie Raymond's fate)
Identity Crisis #5
JSA #67 (Dr. Light's autopsy of Sue Dibney)
Identity Crisis #6-7
Flash #216-217 (Wally tries to atone for Barry's sin, funeral of Captain Cold)
Adam Strange #1-8 (Leads into Rann/Thanagar War)
Teen Titans #20 (Robin copes with his father's death)
Adventures of Superman #636 (The Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman summit)
Flash #219/Wonder Woman #214 (Same deal as Superman Secret Files 2004)
There's a breaking point here somewhere. In the stories that take place after this point, Wonder Woman's sight has been restored, something that has yet to happen in her own title.
Teen Titans #21-23 (Titans face Dr. Light, who is taken away as the story leads directly into Villains United)
Green Lantern: Rebirth #1-6 (Hal is separated from the Spectre, leading into Day of Vengeance, Kyle and Kilowog spin into Rann/Thanagar War)
DC Countdown #1
The OMAC Project #1
Action Comics #826/Adventures of Superman #639/Superman #216 (Superman & Captain Marvel vs. Eclipso, leads into Day of Vengeance)
Superman #217 (Ties in to OMAC Project)
Day of Vengeance #1
JSA #73 (Day of Vengeance Tie-In)
Villains United #1
Rann/Thanagar War #1

[Terry Verticchio]

Every time I see that list, Blake, I can actually here my bank account moaning in despair. :crazy:

[Blake Petit]

:LOL:

That's just the list of the ones I've already GOT. :D

[Terry Verticchio]

What irks me even more is that the Return of Donna Troy is a four issue limited series, plus I'll probably have to buy the Outsiders, along with Titans, to keep up with everything...boy if there is a comic sucker list I must be in the Top 10.

[klwiggs]

Every time I see that list, Blake, I can actually here my bank account moaning in despair. :crazy:

I know. Curiosity didn't kill the cat, just my wallet when buying numerous comics.

[LEGENDKILLER]

I know how you guys feel about the Bank account being hurt. Thats why I have been saving up ever since i heard about Infinite Countdown. Every bit of spare change I have collected in the last months has gone into the comic fund.

[AmazingMattMan]

i just cleaned my room and with the change i found its at least 2 books worth!

anyways to answer the question i asked earlier: i think the titans are going to end up playing a huge role. we all ready saw what happened when they didnt help out in the future titans arc, so they know they gotta act. plus geoff johns is writting both so yeah!

[Kevin Reeves]

BIRDS OF PREY, TEEN TITANS, OUTSIDERS, OMAC PROJECT, & VILLAINS UNITED spoilers & speculations:

You guys seriously are surprised at the BIRDS OR PREY applicability/tie-in to INFINITE CRISIS? That's like the one and only hunch that I feel I have had right from the beginning of all this! Since before COUNTDOWN even came out, I knew that the Braniac-infection that's been spreading through Barbara Gordon/Oracle would come to be a crossover-related situation. I mean, come on! Braniac? He's like a crazy-important villain! And now, with the most recent revelation--that Indigo, of the Outsiders, is embodying Braniac 8 (from the future?), I just think it's quite clear that somehow, someway...Braniac is going to be big in the coming CRISIS. Barbara/Oracle has been hiding her Braniac infection even from her best friend, Dinah Lance/Black Canary. A secret kept from a close friend....much like Conner/Superboy's hiding his Lex Luthor "lineage" from most of the Teen Titans...just like Zatanna & the older JLA all hiding the fact that they mind-wiped Dr. Light. I see a pattern here...the dark secrets of the DCU's heroes are coming back around to kick them in the butts. I hope & trust that the Barbara/Oracle-Braniac hybrid will either be involved in VILLAINS UNITED, THE OMAC PROJECT, or both!

[Downfall]

Also, don't know if anybody said something about this, but the upcoming JLA arc by Geoff Johns is a tie in...

It involves a different Secret Society of Villains than the one in Villains United. Chronos, Felix Faust, Star Sapphire, and a few others, villains who were mindwiped as we saw in Identity Crisis, but now have their memories back somehow.

[AmazingMattMan]

response to kevin reeves- all spoilers apply:

well shes had brainaic in her for a while and shes been hiding it. i dont see why they would single that issue out is all. i still havent gave it another read through, but when i do ill post back in here and see if i notice any thing else

[Chapel]

It looks like Barbra Gordan is Carring Branica's love child...I think Branica 8 is Barbra's daughter

[Terry Verticchio]

Just read an ad in the Donna Troy special...yet another mini to add to the growing list...JLA: Crisis of Conscious. The 'bridge' between Inditity and Infinite. More like a bridge betweem my wallet and the DC bank. :bunny:

Is it it just me or is anyone else getting really fricken sick of the word 'crisis'?

[Symphony of Six]

Adventures of Superman Spoilers

Well I just got done reading Adventures in Superman #640 and I must say it is hard being the world's greatest detective...next to Batman of course. I called it that Pete Ross is Ruin. Now this only furthers my speculation that Wonder Woman is going to kill him as she told Superman to do in 636. That is what's going to cause the rift between Superman & Wonder Woman.

I'll be reading Omac & DoV now so I'm sure I'll be back real soon.

[Fanatix]

I'm not sure how much this is gonna contribute to this convo but hear ya go.
So far, a lot of A-list villans and c/d list villans have been returning and profiled in the various crisis books. But there are still some major names missing. Where did these people go and do you think they'll show up and cause some trouble?

A good example of this is the immortal vandal savage. He was a big part dc one million, and I haven't seen much of him since. Will he show up?

Another idea/question is about the dc "higher powers". We never really saw the wizard shazam get involved in the affairs of man until the eclipso battle from last months superman. He normally just gets cap. marvel to do his work. But apparently omac has an interest in him. Obviously spectre is playing a part in it. But there are others. I'm almost suprised neuron hasn't shown up in the flash books considering the reason the ol' rouges turned good guy is so they don't spend eternity with him. And there are a couple of others that could still rear their heads.

[AmazingMattMan]

Just read an ad in the Donna Troy special...yet another mini to add to the growing list...JLA: Crisis of Conscious. The 'bridge' between Inditity and Infinite. More like a bridge betweem my wallet and the DC bank. :bunny:

Is it it just me or is anyone else getting really fricken sick of the word 'crisis'?

not a mini series, but a story arc starting at jla 115

[Downfall]

Adventures of Superman Spoilers

Well I just got done reading Adventures in Superman #640 and I must say it is hard being the world's greatest detective...next to Batman of course. I called it that Pete Ross is Ruin. Now this only furthers my speculation that Wonder Woman is going to kill him as she told Superman to do in 636. That is what's going to cause the rift between Superman & Wonder Woman.

I'll be reading Omac & DoV now so I'm sure I'll be back real soon.

Actually, the Ruin's identity thing was a bit obvious. Yeah, they kinda broadcasted it.

But still it was very well done.

[Fanatix]

I'm not sure if anybodys seen this before, it might have already been posted, but this is pretty cool.
http://comics.ign.com/articles/598/598330p1.html

Its a total rundown of infinite crisis. And the picture galleries a nice touch.

[Harvey Musgrove]

wouldnt the "for tomorrow" story have alot to do with the upcoming infinity crisis. after all on page 6 in superman 214 you see Mr Orr discussing the "One man army corps" which ofcourse in short is OMAC. But what i didnt get was he refered to it as version four.what are the other versions? And is lex luthor involved? well none of the guys that Mr orr was talkin to was bold so im just assuming he a) isnt involved or b) he wore a wig
so ill go with A, i mean i dont think DC would have lex running the whole show, his already in that "society" of his.
and yeah seeing as its called infinity crisis there ofcourse has to be some kinda earth 1,2,3,4... crossover or plenty of time traveling. maybe future superman? cause he does seem to be popping up alot in the superman/batman comics
oh yeah how cool would it be if hiss not actually future superman, its actually golden age superman,

[Blake Petit]

I doubt "For Tomorrow" has anything to do with it -- Azzarello was just referencing the old OMAC series, the same way the architects of the Crisis are. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I HOPE "For Tomorrow" has nothing to do with it. The less said about that train wreck, the better.

And DC has already said that this time the Crisis isn't going to have anything to do with the timestream or alternate Earths.

[Mark Blicharz]

I really have no idea what's gonna happen anymore in Infinite Crisis. Everytime I think I get a handle on it, something new comes up and completely rips apart my theory.

[Blake Petit]

Me too -- and that's what I like about it. :)

[Symphony of Six]

I just got done reading an arcticle about Infinite Crisis over at Newsarama. It had alot of interesting points that after it is all over the DCU will have a One Year later world going. It also stated that the Scarlet Speedsters don't have a good track record when it comes to a Crisis. So as of right now I'm going to protest that I hope that they keep Wally...I just don't think Bart's ready yet. It also stated (which I'm sure goes with my last point) that there will be changes in people under the masks and that Nightwing WILL play a very important role in this. I know Blake has stated many of times that you can't kill off any of the big three so who's to say you can't change one of them. And now with All-Star DC coming out. They can still have Bruce as Batman in one form or another. But as of right now I'm willing to bet that with Batman's whole deal with the JLA and his inclusion of the Brother Sattelite there will or could be a possible change of the Bat-guard...so to speak.

[Fanatix]

What do you mean "one year later" world going?
Is it possible that time is actually going to pass so robin will be 17 instead of 16(which hes been for like 8 years now).
I like that idea a lot, i've been wanting to see some of the younger crowd actually get older and not just "more mature".

[AmazingMattMan]

I really have no idea what's gonna happen anymore in Infinite Crisis. Everytime I think I get a handle on it, something new comes up and completely rips apart my theory.

i feel ya man! so much crazy stuff going in the dcu, it could lead anywhere. all of it bad for our heros.

btw i think wally is gonna stay. i mean johns wrote the flash for so long and then hes writing infinite crisis. unless it was editorial so its his reason for leaving the title.

[Harvey Musgrove]

hmmm true, but if there is one character that will have a big part in infinity crisis, its the golden age superman, i mean his not dead, and he is a top character, and he did pop up in superman/batman 5,15 16
i just figured seeing as this is the sequel, why not have 1 of the major characters from the original involved

[Downfall]

I think somebody who will have a big part in the Crisis, is Lex Luthor (not sure if that's a spoiler cause it's my theory)

1. The "there will be a reckoning... a crisis..." thing. everybody thought it meant Identity Crisis, but what if it didn't?

2. Luthor's got his hands in many pies nowadays. The Society of Supervillains, losing and then stealing back his armor, turning Superboy over to the dark side, monitoring Supergirl... heck his former Vice President partner, Pete Ross, turned out to be Ruin, maybe Lex had something to do with that.

3. He's Lex fraggin' Luthor.

[Cardiac]

hmmm true, but if there is one character that will have a big part in infinity crisis, its the golden age superman, i mean his not dead, and he is a top character, and he did pop up in superman/batman 5,15 16
i just figured seeing as this is the sequel, why not have 1 of the major characters from the original involved

Firstly, I'm not convinced he is that version, and secondly, I bloody hope he doesn't turn out to be. Dredging up 20 year old continuity (the last crisis) seems to be exactly what this is trying to avoid.

[Harvey Musgrove]

yeah at first i didnt think it was him, but the more i looked into it, the more i believe (sounds kinda religious haha)
reasons for believing his the earth 2 superman:
1) same hair!:]
2)superman/batman 16, page 22, he says "this is YOUR earth" as in not his earth, which is earth 2
3)same costume, (well im assuming that the superman in "kingdom" is the superman from earth 2)
4)on page 23 in s/b 16, he says "ive told you in the past clark im older than you. stronger" im assumin this is reference to pre-crisis events when they did meet up, or during the crisis.
5)page 24 of the same issue, superman of earth 2 says "unless... how did i put it...? you'll be amazed by the alliances you have yet to make." im guessin superman of earth 2 has said this before to superman. plus if he did say this in the pre-crisis or during the crisis, then that means...
6) superman is starting to do the imposible, by remebering the pre-crisis and during the crisis,as he (i think those yellow boxes are his thoughts) states " i dont know how, but ive heard that before. Like a whisper in the dark."( which alot of characters actually remember, but thats a different topic i suppose)

and finally 7) if ultraman can come back, and he did actually die in the crisis, then why cant superman of earth 2 return? even though he didnt die.

[Cardiac]

5)page 24 of the same issue, superman of earth 2 says "unless... how did i put it...? you'll be amazed by the alliances you have yet to make." im guessin superman of earth 2 has said this before to superman. plus if he did say this in the pre-crisis or during the crisis, then that means...

He was trying to remember what he was told by his future self when he was the younger Clark. A least that's how I read it.

[Mark Blicharz]

I'm pretty sure it's the Kingdom Come Superman. It would be odd for it to be the PC Superman from Earth 2.

[Symphony of Six]

I thought it was the Pre-Crisis Superman also. Just look at how the Absolute Power arc ended with the same ending as What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

[Symphony of Six]

Also here's a little word from the DC panel at Philly that backs up what I was stating earlier.

"Along those lines, because Tim Drake has stated that he will never take up the Bat mantle, a fan asked if Bruce Wayne died today, who would take over as Batman. Didio said that in the upcoming Infinite Crisis, the issue will be addressed."

[DocDoom]

But nightwing as Batman?? Wasn't that already done in Prodigal?

Seems a little anti-cliamtic, because if Bruce steps aside, you know it will be only a matter of time until he comes back, and Bruce stepiing aside was also already done in Knighquest and beyond.

But if they kill bats.. which i'm sure they won't,.. they will only write themselves into a corner, because there is no way he will stay dead

[Blake Petit]

The "there will be a reckoning... a crisis..." thing. everybody thought it meant Identity Crisis, but what if it didn't?


:strangles:

Not EVERYBODY thought it meant Identity Crisis. I said from day one that people read too bloody much into that word. And I stand by it.

Well here's something interesting from DC Philly -- One year later.

After Infinite Crisis #5, every DC Universe title will leap ahead one year in its timeline. New titles, new characters and, in some cases, new people wearing old masks have been promised. The reason for the leap, however, will not be explained until Infinite Crisis #7.

Let the speculation begin. ;)

[AmazingMattMan]

infinite crisis 5 leaves on the biggest cliff hanger ever and they wanna torture us by making us wait 2 months to figure it out

[Blake Petit]

Okay, here we go again. All of the Identity Crisis/Countdown/Infinite Crisis crossovers I know of as of yet:

Superman Secret Files 2004 (The connection is unclear, but as it will be in the upcoming Prelude to Infinite Crisis TPB, it belongs here)
Identity Crisis #1-3
Flash #214-215 (Wally learns Barry's secret)
Identity Crisis #4
Manhunter #5 (Manhunter goes after Shadow Thief, who "killed" Firestorm in IC #4)
Firestorm #6 (Jason Rusch discovers Ronnie Raymond's fate)
Identity Crisis #5
JSA #67 (Dr. Light's autopsy of Sue Dibney)
Identity Crisis #6-7
Flash #216-217 (Wally tries to atone for Barry's sin, funeral of Captain Cold)
Adam Strange #1-8 (Leads into Rann/Thanagar War)
Teen Titans #20 (Robin copes with his father's death)
Adventures of Superman #636 (The Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman summit)
Flash #219/Wonder Woman #214 (Same deal as Superman Secret Files 2004)
(In the stories that take place after this point, Wonder Woman's sight has been restored, something that has yet to happen in her own title.)
Teen Titans #21-23 (Titans face Dr. Light, who is taken away as the story leads directly into Villains United)
Green Lantern: Rebirth #1-6 (Hal is separated from the Spectre, leading into Day of Vengeance, Kyle and Kilowog spin into Rann/Thanagar War)
DC Countdown #1
The OMAC Project #1-2
Action Comics #826/Adventures of Superman #639/Superman #216 (Superman & Captain Marvel vs. Eclipso, leads into Day of Vengeance)
Superman #217 (Superman battles OMAC)
Day of Vengeance #1-2
JSA #73-74 (Ties in to Day of Vengeance)
Action Comics #828 (SPOILER since it came out just todayDr. Polaris recruited to the Society of Villains)
Villains United #1-2
Nightwing #109 (Labelled a Villains United crossover, but the connection isn't clear... yet)
Rann/Thanagar War #1-2
DC Special: The Return of Donna Troy #1

JLA #115 begins "Crisis of Conscience," which deals with the fallout of Identity Crisis, but having not read it yet, I don't know exactly where to put it in the timeline.

I'm also considering adding the "Insiders" crossover in Teen Titans #24-25 and Outsiders #24-25, but I'm not 100 percent sure yet on that one. I may wait until the end of the story to decide if it belongs there. Same goes for the Rogue War in Flash #220-225.

[Adam Chapman]

Superman Secret Files 2004:

Okay, so I read this over again to try and figure out what the connection might be. We see Captain Boomerang in action as part of a revived Suicide Squad that was not reporting to Haller but instead someone else in the wake of Luthor's disappearance. It looked like Checkmate was aggressively controlling the office of President. However, Pete Ross certainly wasn't written like he has been in Adventures of Superman where he was eventually uncovered as Ruin. *Sigh- oh well. :p

[Downfall]

:strangles:

Not EVERYBODY thought it meant Identity Crisis. I said from day one that people read too bloody much into that word. And I stand by it.


Okay, everybody EXCEPT Blake. Lol

[Blake Petit]

That's better. :p

:kicks:

[Terry Verticchio]

But, Blake, isn't the picture of Luthor saying that very line on the cover of Prelude? :hrm:

[Blake Petit]

But, Blake, isn't the picture of Luthor saying that very line on the cover of Prelude? :hrm:

Beats me, I haven't seen the cover of Prelude.

And I never said that Luthor ISN'T involved -- clearly he's a big player in Villains United. But I think it's silly to base that whole argument just on the fact that he used the word "Crisis." There has to be more to it than that -- and clearly, it didn't pan out for everyone screaming he was the one behind Sue Dibney's death.

I think it's a mistake to assume that there's one big mastermind behind Infinite Crisis. Look at everything that's happening in the DC Universe right now:

The planet Thanagar has been destroyed and its survivors are at war with Rann.
The villains of Earth, discovering that the Justice League has been tampering with their memories, are unifying against them, even as a small contingent is standing in oppostion.
The Spectre has started a campaign to destroy all magic.
Checkmate is unleashing its OMAC robots against Earth's heroes.
The dead are rising from the grave (Hal Jordan, Donna Troy, Jason Todd, etc.)

It would be a huge stretch to piece one grand scheme behind all of this. I think it's far more likely that these are separate incidences that are going to spin in to one another and creative a massive climax in common. The same ending, not the same point of origin.

[RadioCleve]

hmmm true, but if there is one character that will have a big part in infinity crisis, its the Golden Age Superman, i mean his not dead, and he is a top character, and he did pop up in superman/batman 5,15 16

That wasn't Golden Age Superman, it was Superman from a possible future. It was averted when the "right choice" was made at the end of that arc.

[Blake Petit]

That wasn't Golden Age Superman, it was Superman from a possible future. It was averted when the "right choice" was made at the end of that arc.

Actually, I don't think it was either.

By mirroring the ending of Alan Moore's Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, I think it was clear that Loeb intended the character to be the Silver Age Superman, the one whose adventures ended in that story, clearing the way for the 1986 relaunch by John Byrne.

[Fanatix]

I'm hoping somebody could help me out with the rann/thangar series

spoilers - Canybody please explain who starman(gavyn), onimar, l.e.i.g.o.n., the khunds, dox, shayera, and captain comet are?

It'd help me out a lot

[Adam Chapman]

Okay, here we go again. All of the Identity Crisis/Countdown/Infinite Crisis crossovers I know of as of yet:

Superman Secret Files 2004 (The connection is unclear, but as it will be in the upcoming Prelude to Infinite Crisis TPB, it belongs here)
Identity Crisis #1-3
Flash #214-215 (Wally learns Barry's secret)
Identity Crisis #4
Manhunter #5 (Manhunter goes after Shadow Thief, who "killed" Firestorm in IC #4)
Firestorm #6 (Jason Rusch discovers Ronnie Raymond's fate)
Identity Crisis #5
JSA #67 (Dr. Light's autopsy of Sue Dibney)
Identity Crisis #6-7
Flash #216-217 (Wally tries to atone for Barry's sin, funeral of Captain Cold)
Adam Strange #1-8 (Leads into Rann/Thanagar War)
Teen Titans #20 (Robin copes with his father's death)
Adventures of Superman #636 (The Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman summit)
Flash #219/Wonder Woman #214 (Same deal as Superman Secret Files 2004)
(In the stories that take place after this point, Wonder Woman's sight has been restored, something that has yet to happen in her own title.)
Teen Titans #21-23 (Titans face Dr. Light, who is taken away as the story leads directly into Villains United)
Green Lantern: Rebirth #1-6 (Hal is separated from the Spectre, leading into Day of Vengeance, Kyle and Kilowog spin into Rann/Thanagar War)
DC Countdown #1
The OMAC Project #1-2
Action Comics #826/Adventures of Superman #639/Superman #216 (Superman & Captain Marvel vs. Eclipso, leads into Day of Vengeance)
Superman #217 (Superman battles OMAC)
Day of Vengeance #1-2
JSA #73-74 (Ties in to Day of Vengeance)
Action Comics #828 (SPOILER since it came out just todayDr. Polaris recruited to the Society of Villains)
Villains United #1-2
Nightwing #109 (Labelled a Villains United crossover, but the connection isn't clear... yet)
Rann/Thanagar War #1-2
DC Special: The Return of Donna Troy #1

JLA #115 begins "Crisis of Conscience," which deals with the fallout of Identity Crisis, but having not read it yet, I don't know exactly where to put it in the timeline.

I'm also considering adding the "Insiders" crossover in Teen Titans #24-25 and Outsiders #24-25, but I'm not 100 percent sure yet on that one. I may wait until the end of the story to decide if it belongs there. Same goes for the Rogue War in Flash #220-225.

Here's a press release just put online at Newsarama (www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35595)

DC EXPANDS INFINITE CRISIS TIE-IN LIST

Press Release

With the DCU miniseries DAY OF VENGEANCE, THE OMAC PROJECT, RANN-THANAGAR WAR and VILLAINS UNITED racing toward the explosive INFINITE CRISIS, DC Comics reveals more issues of its ongoing monthly series tying into each miniseries. The issues will feature cover blurbs reflecting which miniseries they tie into.

Watch for announcements of more tie-ins to the four miniseries (including RANN-THANAGAR WAR) in the coming weeks.

The tie-in issues are listed below. Don ' t get caught short!

DAY OF VENGEANCE

Already in stores:

* JSA #73 (MAR050411) is sold out at DC Comics, but still may be available at retail.

* JSA #74 (APR050344) is available for reorder.

Solicited in the May Previews (Volume XV #5):

* JSA #75 (MAY050238) is scheduled to arrive in stores on July 7.

Solicited in the June Previews (Volume XV #6):

* BLOOD OF THE DEMON #6 (JUN050354) is scheduled to arrive in stores on August 3.

* JSA #76 (JUN050374) is scheduled to arrive in stores on August 3.

THE OMAC PROJECT

Already in stores:

* SUPERMAN #217 (MAR050213) is sold out at DC Comics, but may still be available at retail.

Available for advance reorder:

* ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #641 (APR050318) is scheduled to arrive in stores on June 15.

* BIRDS OF PREY #83 (APR050328) is scheduled to arrive in stores on June 15.

Solicited in the May Previews (Volume XV #5):

* ACTION COMICS #829 (MAY050214) is scheduled to arrive in stores on July 13.

* ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #642 (MAY05215) is scheduled to arrive in stores on July 20.

* SUPERMAN #219 (MAY050213) is scheduled to arrive in stores on