DCU mutants?

[Downfall]

Recently, I've been noticing that some characters in the DCU are just arbitrarily gaining powers, like being born with them. Examples include Thunder of the Outsiders, Brick, and I'm sure I could go on.

Is DC experiencing a "mutant" outbreak like the Marvel universe?

[Mark Blicharz]

God I hope not.

[Cardiac]

Thunder is the daughter of Black Lightning.

[Blake Petit]

DC has always had mutants of a sort -- they just aren't segregated like Marvel's. Black Canary was born with her Canary Cry, after all.

[Chapel]

Don't think children of superheros are considered mutants....they just inherited their superpowers or had their genetic structure altered in someway due to thier parents exposure to the elements.

Is franklen richards considered a mutie?

[Terry Verticchio]

In the old Wolfman Titans, Jerico, Deathstroke's son was a 'mutant' in that he was born with the ability to take over people's bodies. When I first heard him refered to as a 'mutant' I felt it an odd remark.

Personally, I don't think it applies, as Deathstroke was given his abilities artificially. So I guess that means Franklin isn't a mutant either. IMO

It'd be like calling the Hulk or Spider man a mutant really. That label doesn't apply.

[Frozone]

DC mutants are a verry verry small minority, in the Superhuman community.

Their is Shimmer, Mammoth, the Wilson children, Galye (Outsiders), anddddddddddddd no more than 5 others, I orget their names.

Volcana and Vibe(That horrenodusly dresses latino who looks like he shopped at a dsico bin) From JLU series.

You have a better chance of inheriting magical powers than you do mutant powers.

[WhereIsTony]

Franklin is a mutant

he was born with his powers

Spider-man is not he got them by outside means

spider-Girl is a mutant

[LEGENDKILLER]

We must not forget DC's greatest Mutant Captain Comet.

I really wouldnt call very many people in DC mutants unless specifically stated otherwise. I think their meta genes operate a little different than the X-genes in Marvel.

[Terry Verticchio]

Franklin is a mutant

he was born with his powers

Spider-man is not he got them by outside means

spider-Girl is a mutant

Yes, but would Franklin have developed his powers if Reed and Sue had not been exposed to Cosmic Rays? I know that sounds kinda lame, but was his genetic structure already pre-disposed to becoming a mutant?

[Blake Petit]

Don't think children of superheros are considered mutants....they just inherited their superpowers or had their genetic structure altered in someway due to thier parents exposure to the elements.

Is franklen richards considered a mutie?

Yes, he is. And Canary didn't get her power from her mother -- her mother was a baseline human.

[WhereIsTony]

Yes, but would Franklin have developed his powers if Reed and Sue had not been exposed to Cosmic Rays? I know that sounds kinda lame, but was his genetic structure already pre-disposed to becoming a mutant?

Probably not but he is still a mutant

it has been postulated that cannonball's father was exposed to radiation as a mine worker leading to the guthrie clan of mutants

[Blake Petit]

Remember, in the early days of the X-Men, it was heavily suggested that mutant powers were caused by parents being exposed to radiation. It was part of the whole nuclear scare of the time.

Even now, Marvel pretty much considers anyone born with powers a mutant, even if they got 'em from their parents. So yes, Franklin Richards is a mutant, as is Spider-Girl, as are Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. I'd be very surprised if Valeria Richards doesn't turn out to be a mutant too (after all, her older counterpart in the timestream was), although she's too young for any powers to manifest themselves -- even younger than Franklin was when his activated.

DC occasionally uses the term mutant and means the same thing -- someone born with superpowers -- but they don't use it the same way at all.

[Mark Blicharz]

And far less frequently.

[Blake Petit]

That's true -- they don't need to fall back on that.

[Mark Blicharz]

Nope they don't. Their characters don't need a overused gimmick like a mutant to be interesting.

PS. Ah, back to being the Legend.

[Chapel]

I always thought that being a mutant was something very specific in marvel. If I had a kid and he had superpowers then he would be an outcast. If Cap had a kid and he had superpowers that would just be expected.

[marvelvsdcu]

Mutant can mean genetic, or meta-human...let DC stick to its superior Andriods, Cosmic Entities, and Caped Due-gooders with weaknesses. Marvel has its Mutant outcasts, Robots, and Super-beings. As far as I know both universes have Superbeings that gain powers from radiation, magic etc. Don't really know what the dif. between a metahuman and a mutant is though.

[Mathew Smith]

Well thing is everyone in the MU has the X-gene, even Baseline Humans the only difference is that their X-gene remains dormant. Ages ago a group of beings called the Celestials came down and played around with the gene pool and added this X-gene to see what would happen, they come down from time to time to see how their "experiment" is going!
However Franklin Richards is considered a mutant (for two reasons now!)
One being that there is the possibilty that he would have manifested his powers even if his parents didnt get hit by cosmic radiation, and now in the recent X-men/Fantastic Four mini cosmic radiation always yields the same results (well that particular wave anyway) so IMHo i think if Franklin was going to manifest powers from his parents he would of either had a mix or one or the other!
Oh and a meta-human is someone who has been "worked" on Like Captain America, Red Skull and Sinister.

[Blake Petit]

Actually (In DCU terms), a metahuman is someone who possesses the dormant metagene. When that gene is activated, that person gains super powers. This can happen due to an accident later in life (such as Firestorm) or before birth (such as Black Canary). It's also speculated that many of the more adventurous baseline human types, such as Green Arrow, possess the metagene, but that it has never been activated.

Which does bring us to the question of the Flash. Now that we know of the Speed Force and that it seems to select people to wield it, I'm not sure if the Flashes are technically metahuman or not.

[lennygray]

We must not forget DC's greatest Mutant Captain Comet.

I really wouldnt call very many people in DC mutants unless specifically stated otherwise. I think their meta genes operate a little different than the X-genes in Marvel.

Captain Comet was a mutant superhero before Marvel ever thought about mutants... In many ways, akin to the original JSA's Mr. Terrific (excellent at just about anything), CC remains one of the best pre-Silver Age heroes and just as under-utilized.

STILL wondering what was in Cap's holster!

[Magneto X]

Nope they don't. Their characters don't need a overused gimmick like a mutant to be interesting.

Right ... right ... :LOL: ... DC doesn't empower characters with overused gimmicks ... right ... not at all ... sorry .... Tell me again ... I was busy chatting with a guy whose only weakness was saying his name backwards, a green guy who could do anything unless there was "the color yellow" chatting with the guy who could do anything unless there was a green rock, Bizzaro, Giganta and Sinestro were complaining about having the same powers as the hero they faught, Arthur Light was forming a meet-up for people born with names similar to the powers they'd one day get from an accident but the room was booked by "heroes whose name ends with boy, girl, man, woman, lass or lad", and a hundred powerless characters were talking about how they named both themselves, and their weapon of choice, after an animal.

Seriously, I prefer mutation to most power origin stories.

[JX141]

Right ... right ... :LOL: ... DC doesn't empower characters with overused gimmicks ... right ... not at all ... sorry .... Tell me again ... I was busy chatting with a guy whose only weakness was saying his name backwards, a green guy who could do anything unless there was "the color yellow" chatting with the guy who could do anything unless there was a green rock, Bizzaro, Giganta and Sinestro were complaining about having the same powers as the hero they faught, Arthur Light was forming a meet-up for people born with names similar to the powers they'd one day get from an accident but the room was booked by "heroes whose name ends with boy, girl, man, woman, lass or lad", and a hundred powerless characters were talking about how they named both themselves, and their weapon of choice, after an animal.

Seriously, I prefer mutation to most power origin stories.

hahaha exactly right thats why Pre Crisis DC = lame

[Downfall]

Only in you guys' opinion. IMO, Silver Age Marvel's origins are kinda lame, considering 9/10 of them involved radiation and if you think about it, radiation would'nt turn you into the Hulk, it'd give you cancer.

Coming from another planet >>> cancer.

[Magneto X]

Sure, both companies have used radiation of some kind for a giant chunk of their characters. And if you include related science accidents like exposure to chemicals or animal genes, who wants to bet that some-kind-of-sciency-exposure isn't the #1 reason for powers.

Leaving us with #1 exposure, followed closely by #2 magic (of some sort), #3 alien/alien-world origin or intervention (including other planets, other dimensions, and gods and demons), #4 mutant genes, and then maybe #5 cybernetic implants.

But, not one to defend the Hulk, as radiation goes, he's more plausible than many (including Spiderman) because the giant growth of tough green cells on your body is much more like cancer than the power of flight, lightspeed, x-ray vision and super hearing somehow given by "yellow sun radiation" to Superman.

[Justin Byrd]

Sure, both companies have used radiation of some kind for a giant chunk of their characters. And if you include related science accidents like exposure to chemicals or animal genes, who wants to bet that some-kind-of-sciency-exposure isn't the #1 reason for powers.

Leaving us with #1 exposure, followed closely by #2 magic (of some sort), #3 alien/alien-world origin or intervention (including other planets, other dimensions, and gods and demons), #4 mutant genes, and then maybe #5 cybernetic implants.

But, not one to defend the Hulk, as radiation goes, he's more plausible than many (including Spiderman) because the giant growth of tough green cells on your body is much more like cancer than the power of flight, lightspeed, x-ray vision and super hearing somehow given by "yellow sun radiation" to Superman.
But Kryptonians have a different physiology than us, they absorb the solar radiation and basically convert it into energy. Ever hear of photosynthesis? Kinda like that...only on a grander scale. It creates an aura around him, his skin and organs grow denser, he can discharge the energy through his eyes...etc.

It makes sense.

[Magneto X]

I'm just saying radiation going into a humanoid, any humanoid, and giving them one power is more realistic than giving them ten very unique and rather unrelated powers. How does solar energy give you freeze breath, anyway? One might have been "Hmm, what might happen if a guy was exposed to ... Maybe he grows super big and strong." Okay. The other almost has to be: Let's start, he has freezebreath/ heatvision/ lightspeed/ flight/ x-rayvision/ superhearing ... now ... we have a character ... but how does he get these powers? " So it's more: reverse engineer the already powered guy to come up with a semi-plausible reason why he has those unrelated powers. I'm just saying, after the "radiation gives you cancer" comeent, that as implausible as the Hulk is, the Hulk is more plausible.

[JX141]

ahh reverse engineer the reasoning for unimaginative writing hmmm sounds strange to me never heard of it. Oh yes I have that guy with the big red S on his chest. PC DC = lame
However at least after COIE the reverse engineering tried to make more sense of things and didnt just use some new undiscovered power as a plot device to win every battle. Sometimes yes but that big red S is written a lot better now and I think is a more interesting character nowadays, I want fallible!

and yes this is all my opinion, even though part of it coincides with the opinions of others, and mines the only one that counts - to me, its good to be open-minded and hear other thoughts, and/or new information on things.

Besides these threads are way better than vs. matches because on any team can win on any given sunday, woohoo go seahawks and thats more of my opinion.

[Justin Byrd]

I'm just saying radiation going into a humanoid, any humanoid, and giving them one power is more realistic than giving them ten very unique and rather unrelated powers. How does solar energy give you freeze breath, anyway? One might have been "Hmm, what might happen if a guy was exposed to ... Maybe he grows super big and strong." Okay. The other almost has to be: Let's start, he has freezebreath/ heatvision/ lightspeed/ flight/ x-rayvision/ superhearing ... now ... we have a character ... but how does he get these powers? " So it's more: reverse engineer the already powered guy to come up with a semi-plausible reason why he has those unrelated powers. I'm just saying, after the "radiation gives you cancer" comeent, that as implausible as the Hulk is, the Hulk is more plausible.
I think his point is that the "radiation gives you powers" really got old after a while back in the day.

Also, his frost breath comes from the fact that his lungs are like steel tanks and he can control the force of the breath. Goes back to the density of his organs.

And I find post crisis Superman more interesting because he's more competent in battle, is less conceited, and is more Clark than Kal. Clark is the real persona, not Superman. That was what Byrne really did well in his revamp.

But not everything in PC DC was lame. Heck, there's a lot of old stuff from Marvel that sucked too (Stiltman anyone?) I suggest you go read For the Man who has Everything or Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? Good stories, both pre-crisis and by Alan Moore.

It was the old days man. They weren't exactly the best stories, but it wasn't quite the same time as we are. E2 Superman is probably my favorite Superman behind our current one, I though he was great in CoIE...so when he got back to the mainstream universe I had fanboy glee.

[thtadthtshldntb]

Does anyone else out there remember the Millenium miniseries, right after Legends? DC earth humans are supposed to be slowly evolving into metahumans over time.

Also, adding on to what someone else said about the Celestials, the dormant X-factor is why radiation does not kill anyone it touches, its a design feature by the Celesitals and its why heroes like Spiderman (before the JMS retcon of his origin) and the Hulk are called Mutates rather than Mutants.

Finally as to post (and to some extent pre) Crisis Kryptonians, not only did they evolve on the harshest possible planet to evolve on, but they also over thousands of years genetically engineered themselves to be "super".

[TNC]

Only in you guys' opinion. IMO, Silver Age Marvel's origins are kinda lame, considering 9/10 of them involved radiation and if you think about it, radiation would'nt turn you into the Hulk, it'd give you cancer.

Coming from another planet >>> cancer.


Not if the planet you come from IS cancer to you!

radiation > Kryptonite

Unless its that OTHER Kryptonite! :LOL:

[JX141]

Finally as to post (and to some extent pre) Crisis Kryptonians, not only did they evolve on the harshest possible planet to evolve on, but they also over thousands of years genetically engineered themselves to be "super".

Ok then but were they or were they not "super" beings on their home planet? I am not clear on the issue. I am with u that they evolved on a harsh planet and all but I don't know all the backstory on their genetically engineering themselves. But if they did then I have one major question.

[Logan]

Which does bring us to the question of the Flash. Now that we know of the Speed Force and that it seems to select people to wield it, I'm not sure if the Flashes are technically metahuman or not.


We need to ask an OMAC. They're programed to hunt out the metas, so they would probably have a good idea. :}

[thtadthtshldntb]

Ok then but were they or were they not "super" beings on their home planet? I am not clear on the issue. I am with u that they evolved on a harsh planet and all but I don't know all the backstory on their genetically engineering themselves. But if they did then I have one major question.

If you read World of Krypton and Birthright, on their homeworld they were more or less normal (relative to that environment) although they did hover around. Of course if you or I or a DC Earth person stepped foot on Krypton we would be dead in less than a second.

In Birthright there are Kryptonian fleets and such with them flying all over the place.

One of the promises from DC (I believe in a Didio column) was that an IC spin off was going to resolve the slight or glaring (depends on opinion) differences between Birthright and the whole Byrne reboot cycle (MoS, WoK, WoS and WoM).

[marvelvsdcu]

Gladiator lives in another planet, both universes show great races. DC emphasizes on kryptonian technology, like the Shiar, or t:cap: he Borlaks, the khunds and the Krill. I say call it quits, have both companys shake hands and merge continuities. Would have happened to if marvel didnt pull out of bankruptcy.

[thtadthtshldntb]

There are different types of bankruptcy, different chapters as they are called. Only one of them qualifies as a self destruct, where the company must cease to exist afterwards (as Rickles hardware did recently e.g.).

Marvel would have had to liquidate non core assets, like the toy business had they had to go through the bankruptcy they elected to but they would have continued as a comic company.

[Magneto X]

No merge. The universes are a little busy already, at least with gods, semi-human races, and aliens. If anything, split into one or two more.

[JX141]

If you read World of Krypton and Birthright, on their homeworld they were more or less normal (relative to that environment) although they did hover around. Of course if you or I or a DC Earth person stepped foot on Krypton we would be dead in less than a second.

In Birthright there are Kryptonian fleets and such with them flying all over the place.

One of the promises from DC (I believe in a Didio column) was that an IC spin off was going to resolve the slight or glaring (depends on opinion) differences between Birthright and the whole Byrne reboot cycle (MoS, WoK, WoS and WoM).

First thanks for the info, and if thats the case then I dont know, gonna have to read them. Was it stated that we would be dead in less than a second? I can understand the whole harsher gravity and climate so when they come here they seem to have extraordinary powers, and if they were able to hover on their own world yeah they can fly here, I guess... comic book physics. What made them hover, genetic-engineering? and did they already absorb solar radiation on their home world, if so did they design themselves to absorb red-sun radiation or all soalr radiation?
Just wondering maybe I should read that stuff but if something else is coming out to clarify things maybe Ill just wait.

[thtadthtshldntb]

Blake or Mark can probably explain in more detail but

Basically and this is real biology so far, all lifeforms absorb energy in some capacity from their local star (99%+ of our internal energy is generated originally by fusion in the Sun). We take it in, through nutrition and respiration.

Now in the comic book world of DCU and some of this part comes from Birthright and some from the Byrne reboot cycle, all Kryptonian life absorbs light. Pre Crisis this was all sunlight and the longer the wavelength (the closer to red) the less energy they got from it. Post Crisis it seems that it is only yellow sun light. Now extrapolating a bit from what we know, as Kryptons Sun faded in intensity the Kryptonians became weaker. However as result of something (this was originally Doomsday's origin but I think Mark has said it was retconned) the Kryptonians became heavily interested in genetic engineering. The made themselves into perfect beings, physically and mentally.

Kryptonians defying gravity has always been ascribed to one of two things. And it has never been settled. Either it is an extension of their telekinetic abilities (hv is a form of telekinesis and pre Crisis Kryptonians also had a power called super telekinesis. These were both eye beams) or it is some sort of gravitic field manipulation (this means that they literally warp space around themselves in very precise paths).

[Magneto X]

And the freeze breath?

[Justin Byrd]

And the freeze breath?
I already answered that a while back:

Also, his frost breath comes from the fact that his lungs are like steel tanks and he can control the force of the breath. Goes back to the density of his organs.

[JX141]

Blake or Mark can probably explain in more detail but

Basically and this is real biology so far, all lifeforms absorb energy in some capacity from their local star (99%+ of our internal energy is generated originally by fusion in the Sun). We take it in, through nutrition and respiration.

Now in the comic book world of DCU and some of this part comes from Birthright and some from the Byrne reboot cycle, all Kryptonian life absorbs light. Pre Crisis this was all sunlight and the longer the wavelength (the closer to red) the less energy they got from it. Post Crisis it seems that it is only yellow sun light. Now extrapolating a bit from what we know, as Kryptons Sun faded in intensity the Kryptonians became weaker. However as result of something (this was originally Doomsday's origin but I think Mark has said it was retconned) the Kryptonians became heavily interested in genetic engineering. The made themselves into perfect beings, physically and mentally.

Kryptonians defying gravity has always been ascribed to one of two things. And it has never been settled. Either it is an extension of their telekinetic abilities (hv is a form of telekinesis and pre Crisis Kryptonians also had a power called super telekinesis. These were both eye beams) or it is some sort of gravitic field manipulation (this means that they literally warp space around themselves in very precise paths).

True but to use real world theory of evolution on "your" theory on kryptonians. I can understand that we all get energy from the local sun and so as a species it makes sense that if they were able to continue to exist thru the fading of their sun then the millions or possibly more years later their species would have evolved to absorb far greater ammounts of that solar radiation. So in our still yellow sun, easier climate and lower gravity, we get Superman that makes sense.
If genetic engineering is involved then why just yellow solar radiation post crisis? Why would they engineer that, they didnt live under a yellow sun!

I feel bad for anyone who has to make some of the ridiculousness unimaginative writing of superman pre-crisis, makes any sense now. It detracts from the character in my eyes.

[Magneto X]

I know, but I still don't get the freeze breath. Just gotta suspend the disbelief, I guess.

[Justin Byrd]

I know, but I still don't get the freeze breath. Just gotta suspend the disbelief, I guess.
What's not to get? Your breath can cool things, albeit slightly. Superman's lungs and organs are so much more dense and strong than ours, he can create extraordinarily cold temperatures. It's believeable.

[JX141]

What's not to get? Your breath can cool things, albeit slightly. Superman's lungs and organs are so much more dense and strong than ours, he can create extraordinarily cold temperatures. It's believeable.

Actually our breath can only cool things that it is already cooler than. Meaning if I blow on hot pizza I won't burn the roof of my mouth, but if I blow on anything colder than my internal temperature it will get hotter or it melts.

Can supes internal temp really be at like absolute 0, when he absorbs all of that solar radiation? If so he must be constanly heating up his own breath to around room temperature, otherwise he'd freeze people to death everytime he let out a halitosis:joker: filled breath. We are all in agreement that he needs to or at least that he does breath.

[thtadthtshldntb]

True but to use real world theory of evolution on "your" theory on kryptonians. I can understand that we all get energy from the local sun and so as a species it makes sense that if they were able to continue to exist thru the fading of their sun then the millions or possibly more years later their species would have evolved to absorb far greater ammounts of that solar radiation. So in our still yellow sun, easier climate and lower gravity, we get Superman that makes sense.
If genetic engineering is involved then why just yellow solar radiation post crisis? Why would they engineer that, they didnt live under a yellow sun!

I feel bad for anyone who has to make some of the ridiculousness unimaginative writing of superman pre-crisis, makes any sense now. It detracts from the character in my eyes.

Its not "my" theory of kryptonians, it is to some extent Lex Luthor's... go read Birthright.

But their sun was at one point a star that emitted primarily yellow light. If I remember correctly btw, a red giant star does emit small amounts of yellow light. And one thing, Kryptonian science was so far advanced that producing yellow light was something of an every day event...

By the way, offhand I would guess that given how efficient his body runs, his internal temp is probably lower than ours... heat is more or less a waste byproduct. The arctic breath bugs me to an extent. I do see a "rational" for it. I could understand if he had arctic vision because he could theoretically just reverse the hv process, instead of increase molecular motion, he could remove it via tk.... but that is a stretch at this point.

[Magneto X]

Wait ... he's increasing molecular motion with his vision? That's wierder. I thought he was just releasing stored solar energy.

[JX141]

Its not "my" theory of kryptonians, it is to some extent Lex Luthor's... go read Birthright.

But their sun was at one point a star that emitted primarily yellow light. If I remember correctly btw, a red giant star does emit small amounts of yellow light. And one thing, Kryptonian science was so far advanced that producing yellow light was something of an every day event...

By the way, offhand I would guess that given how efficient his body runs, his internal temp is probably lower than ours... heat is more or less a waste byproduct. The arctic breath bugs me to an extent. I do see a "rational" for it. I could understand if he had arctic vision because he could theoretically just reverse the hv process, instead of increase molecular motion, he could remove it via tk.... but that is a stretch at this point.

Sorry I didnt mean yours in particular but the one you are presenting, Im not retarded, most days anyway, and didnt mean to suggest you came up with it.

Isnt just about everything in comics a stretch anyway but evolution could be applied ie they were originally "good" being subjective with my adjectives here btw, at absorbing solar radiation to begin with then millions of years later their bodies evolved to be "super" at it. So most things could work.

And btw I rip on superman a bit but mostly because lots of stuff pre-crisis is the work of unimaginative writing. However I respect the character and believe if you asked anyone if they could be one what superhero they would be, it would be him. Its easy to define superstrength, superspeed, superthis, superthat and so on.

[Magneto X]

Here's a DC mutant from 1943.

http://my.execpc.com/~icicle/BRAINWAVE.html

[Frozone]

Actually our breath can only cool things that it is already cooler than. Meaning if I blow on hot pizza I won't burn the roof of my mouth, but if I blow on anything colder than my internal temperature it will get hotter or it melts.

Can supes internal temp really be at like absolute 0, when he absorbs all of that solar radiation? If so he must be constanly heating up his own breath to around room temperature, otherwise he'd freeze people to death everytime he let out a halitosis:joker: filled breath. We are all in agreement that he needs to or at least that he does breath.

Holy implausability batman!

[Magneto X]

Maybe Superman's skin has some kind of absolute "super insulation" so no outside heat can get in. And, when he breathes, and he absorbs all the phononic energy from the air he breathes in, to such an extent that his lungs are filled with air at a temprature of absolute zero! And, therefore, not only would he have freeze breath, he'd have to heat his breath up (with his heat vision?) subtly with every exhale. And if you ever pierced Superman's lung (with Wonder Woman's sword for instance) you might get a surpising blast of super cold air coming at ya!