Who is the true heir of the mantle of the Bat?

[Ammar Al Subahi]

Nightwing? Robin? Batgirl? Jason Todd? Azrael? or maybe introduce Terry into the mainstream DCU? Or maybe somebody else? Discuss

[Blake Petit]

Nightwing.

I don't think the fans would ever accept anyone else in that costume other than Dick Grayson. He's been there longer than anyone (except Alfred), and he's Bruce's son -- spiritually and legally. I think the whole point of the "Prodigal" storyline a while back was to make the point that Dick is, in fact, the heir apparent.

[Fanatix]

Without a doubt nightwing.

No way it should be jason todd, he made a pretty lame robin and a miserable batman.

Azreals dead and if dc bothers to bring him back then I practically give up on dc.

Tim has made it very clear he does not want to be batman, and that shouldn't change as he grows. He's had a different childhood from bruce and dick. I hope he ends up being the third blue beetle.

[Adam Chapman]

Nightwing is the true heir of the Bat. Always has been, always will be.

[bones]

earth-2 batman... or is that earth 1 batman?

[GreenLantern]

earth-2 batman... or is that earth 1 batman?

Isn't Earth-2 Batman dead and wiped out of existence? ( He is Pre-crisis Bats right?)

[Chapel]

Without a doubt nightwing.

No way it should be jason todd, he made a pretty lame robin and a miserable batman.

Azreals dead and if dc bothers to bring him back then I practically give up on dc.

Tim has made it very clear he does not want to be batman, and that shouldn't change as he grows. He's had a different childhood from bruce and dick. I hope he ends up being the third blue beetle.

Azreal is dead? How/when?

Nightwing is the true heir.

[bones]

Isn't Earth-2 Batman dead and wiped out of existence? ( He is Pre-crisis Bats right?)

next time note sarcasm.. althought i wonder why E2 dick grayson never became bats and instead stay'd as robin.

[Craig Reade]

I think there are strong arguments for all three- Dick, Drake, and Cassandra.

Nightwing clearly has the strongest case, though there are some big drawbacks there. Nightwing is a much more defined character on his own now, and as much as they have worked to associate him as the "heir apparant," they have done just as much to seperate him from Batman.

Tim has always been my favorite, just because he is "Robin," who has a more official current tie to Batman (I mean, no one ever said Batman and Nightwing), Tim is much more of a Detective than Nightwing ever will be, keeping that tradition in tact, and there has been a lot of "What If?s" lately exploring the possibility of Tim being Batman in the future. It seems more of a natural growth for Tim as a character to become Batman. For Dick, it would be a step back. Tim might not WANT to be Batman, but the burden one doesn't want to bear is often a great story spark. Tim might not want to be Batman, but he might not have a choice. Gotham "needs a Batman," and if there is no one else to fill that roll, wouldn't it fall to Robin?

The longshot is Cassandra - clearly reading Batgirl, her ambition is to take over for Bruce. But she is not nearly strong enough as a character for that yet, and who knows what will happen years from now.

I'd love to see Batman finally become a legacy like the Flash. I just don't think it will ever actually happen though.

[Chapel]

I'd love to see Batman finally become a legacy like the Flash. I just don't think it will ever actually happen though.

I agree and I think it is Nightwings fault. Nightwing is the heir appearent but he has gone so far to establish him self as "separate" that Bruce is almost in a damned if he does damned if he doesn't senerio. If he doesn't pass the mantle on Dick would be very hurt(as what happen with Asreal) but if Bruce does give the mantle to Dick it almost seems like Dick would accept it out of a sense of loyalty/duty...not because that is what he really wanted.

[GreenLantern]

next time note sarcasm.. althought i wonder why E2 dick grayson never became bats and instead stay'd as robin.

Oy :o .........

[GreenLantern]

I think there are strong arguments for all three- Dick, Drake, and Cassandra.

Nightwing clearly has the strongest case, though there are some big drawbacks there. Nightwing is a much more defined character on his own now, and as much as they have worked to associate him as the "heir apparant," they have done just as much to seperate him from Batman.

Tim has always been my favorite, just because he is "Robin," who has a more official current tie to Batman (I mean, no one ever said Batman and Nightwing), Tim is much more of a Detective than Nightwing ever will be, keeping that tradition in tact, and there has been a lot of "What If?s" lately exploring the possibility of Tim being Batman in the future. It seems more of a natural growth for Tim as a character to become Batman. For Dick, it would be a step back. Tim might not WANT to be Batman, but the burden one doesn't want to bear is often a great story spark. Tim might not want to be Batman, but he might not have a choice. Gotham "needs a Batman," and if there is no one else to fill that roll, wouldn't it fall to Robin?

The longshot is Cassandra - clearly reading Batgirl, her ambition is to take over for Bruce. But she is not nearly strong enough as a character for that yet, and who knows what will happen years from now.

I'd love to see Batman finally become a legacy like the Flash. I just don't think it will ever actually happen though.

There's an interesting story in there.... A boy who doesn't want to be heir of the bat but is almost perfect for it and a girl who wants to be heir to the bat but still has a long way to go.

[Magnus2k]

Legacy thing will never happen. There are 3 people in the DC universe that will never be changed or tampered with unless for an arc with a predetermined outcome and time, like Nightfall. I think we all know who these three are. And I'm of the opposite opinion, I dont think it should become a legacy. To me, there is no Batman without Bruce Wayne.

[Fanatix]

Azreal is dead? How/when?

Nightwing is the true heir.

Jean paul was killed in the final issue of the series, but his body was never seen. He'll probably end up coming back eventually.

Oh crap, I hadnt really thought about him before but what if hes gonna end up being another part to the hush/jason todd saga.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

I'm not surprised that the majority would pick Nightwing, although in my opinion he isn't fit for it mentally. How many mental breakdowns hasn't gone through? Shutting down the Outsider, the Tarantula thing. Dick would only break if he became Batman.

Batgirl on the other hand is perfect, she already has the fighter mentality and can go around the same lenght Bruce usually does, plus she's the one who's had the least training of the three but is still the best of them. Give her a few more years to develop and she'll already be in Batman's league

[Sasquatch]

i don't think the legacy concept, as in the flash, could ever apply for batman.
nobody has the motivation, nobody else had the same experience and/or faced the trauma with the same results.
hence, no 2nd generation batman

[Cardiac]

Nightwing. There's no question about it. Tim doesn't want to be Batman anyway.

[Magnus2k]

I'm not surprised that the majority would pick Nightwing, although in my opinion he isn't fit for it mentally. How many mental breakdowns hasn't gone through? Shutting down the Outsider, the Tarantula thing. Dick would only break if he became Batman.

Batgirl on the other hand is perfect, she already has the fighter mentality and can go around the same lenght Bruce usually does, plus she's the one who's had the least training of the three but is still the best of them. Give her a few more years to develop and she'll already be in Batman's league

Ya, in fighting, but thats it. She will NEVER have the detective skills Bruce, Dick or Tim have. And that is crucial to the mantle of the Bat.

[Jason Alan]

I would definitely say Nightwing, simply because he was Batman's first pupil. Nobody deserves the mantle more than him if Bruce ever went missing, died, or simply decided to retire. The real question is... would he want the responsibility?

[Blake Petit]

No, but he would accept it.

[Jason Alan]

Very good point there. I know of one occasion where he previously assumed the role of Batman and that was after Bruce ousted Azrael yet had to finish recouperating. Were there any others?

[LeatherWings]

No one, thats your answer. When Bruce Wayne dies so does Batman.

I think Batman/Bruce has proven that he doesn't want anyone to take over for him.

But if anyone's taking his place anytime soon, its gotta be Dick, he's the only one who truly deserves the honor. I mean besides the fact he's been around for as long as Bruce minus one year, I mean people are always looking at him and saying who are you? or, are you the Batman? I mean its about time he gets the respect Batman gets, by becoming Batman.

But yeah, I'll officially stop being a Bat fan, if anyone other than Dick takes that mantle officially for good and its not a Elseworlds etc. Cuz Tim and Cass need to be around for 50 more years then they can have it, and Jason well, pfft, sure go ahead, he'll be killed his first night on the job anyways.

But yeah(yes I know I already said this) Dick Grayson all the way.

While come argue he isn't Batman, because he's different then Bruce, well who said he had to be exactly like Bruce, I mean as long as he fights the same styles, I mean sure Joker might get suspicious. But if some nobody like Terry can take up the mantle and get away with it, then Dick Grayson could be an equal Batman to the real Batman.

So yeah the Bat dies with Bruce, or Dick.

[Cappadonna]

In terms of natural progression, it would be Dick. He is the most throughly trained and component of Batman's pupils. He's also the his full fledge heir-- legally. Emotional breakdowns should stop anyone from taking on the mantle, its just as like being a cop or a fireman, sometimes you get discouraged. Besides, Wayne could use a few crying sessions himself. I would argue that Dick's ability to feel emotion makes him a much healthier person than Wayne.



In terms of natural inclination, it would be Tim. As much as he denies it, he's more like Batman than anyone else in the Bat family-- and surpasses him in others. He's a much more natural detective and more skilled in martial arts in his early years than Grayson or Todd were at the same age. He figured out that Batman and Robin were the Wayne family through sheer deduction. Most of the Gotham PD still haven't figured it out. As a HS senior, his hacking abilities are only outstripped by Batman, Oracle, the Calculator and Luthor.

He's also become one of the most accomplished H2H fighters in the DCU through sheer willpower and hardwork. Grayson's good (better than he gets credit for) but he was also a trained acrobat, doing Aikido and Kung-fu weren't a stretch for him. But for a skinny teenaged computer geek to become such a hardened and skilled fighter in only a few years speaks volumes of Tim. He's also a better leader than Batman because he has stripped away his own humanity and is still able to trust.

[Terry Verticchio]

Babs Gordon...once she regains the use of her legs again, of course.

[AmazingMattMan]

nightwing. best trained, and best fighter out of all of time. not lacking in the smarts department either. plus him and bruce both had their parents taken away from them before thier time.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

I seriously disagree with you guys about Nightwing, he's well...a little girl

let's compare them:
Physically? Cassie WILL become better than Dick, she's already close to his level if not actually ON his level already

Fighting skills? She is ALREADY better than Dick and she's only becoming better

Gadgetry? She is around Dick's level on that too, and she's still learning, Nightwing won't get that much better.

Mentality? As I said before, Cass is hardcore she has much of the fighter/Batman mentality Batman has, Nightwing really lacks of this. He's too emotional, remember the time he disbanded the Outsiders? Or how messed up he was after he got raped by Tarantula and she killed Blockbuster? Cass is a born fighter and raised as a fighter, Nightwing is to emotional for the role of Batman, he doesn't even come close to Cass when it comes to being tough

Detective skills? Nightwing is a better detective, but who says that Cass won't develop that skill? Alfred and Oracle and heck even Tim could tutor her, I can't belive that you guys keep arguing that Cassie isn't fit because she isn't as good as Dick in that department, who says that she won't learn?

Leadership? Sure, I give this to Nightwing too, but Batgirl now knows the meaning of teamwork, I doubt that she's gonna need that much leadership skill.

Experience? Cass was trained to be an assasin as a child, nuff said.

I mean if Nightwing is the true heir of the Batmantle, then WHY did Batman pick Azrael? I think it's because he knows that Dick isn't emotinally up for the role, he did a mistake with Azrael too though.

[Blake Petit]

I mean if Nightwing is the true heir of the Batmantle, then WHY did Batman pick Azrael? I think it's because he knows that Dick isn't emotinally up for the role, he did a mistake with Azrael too though.

This has been explained YEARS ago, during the actual story, in fact. At the time Bane broke his back, Batman and Nightwing were estranged. As in not speaking to each other. Even then, he knew Dick was the best choice, but he didn't think he would accept and he was too stubbornly proud to ask. As soon as Azrael was taken down, Dick stepped in and wore the costume long enough for Bruce to fully recover, and it was in that storyline (Prodigal) that they finally buried the hatchet and really became a father and son.

[Six_Winged]

Jason Todd after the crisis de-evils him :banana:

My real guess though is NW no matter how sissy he seems. :~(

[Ammar Al Subahi]

This has been explained YEARS ago, during the actual story, in fact. At the time Bane broke his back, Batman and Nightwing were estranged. As in not speaking to each other. Even then, he knew Dick was the best choice, but he didn't think he would accept and he was too stubbornly proud to ask. As soon as Azrael was taken down, Dick stepped in and wore the costume long enough for Bruce to fully recover, and it was in that storyline (Prodigal) that they finally buried the hatchet and really became a father and son.

Okay, didn't know that. I STILL feel however that Dick is mentally too WEAK to become Batman, how many times hasn't he experienced somekind of emotional breakdown? How many times hasn't he disbanded the Outsiders? How many times hasn't he been showing off as a whiny? IMO both Batgirl and Tim are more in control of their emotion than Dick will ever be. He's not fit enough to take on Gotham, I mean he could barely keep Blüdhaven in check, and Blockbuster was a complete MORON, but STILL Nightwing couldn't take him down, no Tarantula had to kill him. Then HOW is Dick EVER going to be able to singlehandedly take on criminal geniuses like Joker, Penguin or Ra's Al Ghul?

It wouldn't surprise me if DC chose Dick, becaus eit would be the logical choice with him being Wayne's legal heir and all, but as Dick is NOW I just can't see it. The one most fit for it now is IMO Cass, since Robin is too young

[Magnus2k]

Tim is in the same emotional boat. He quit being Robin cause his dad found out. During IC, when his father died, he lost it. I know most would say "But dude, it was his dead dad!" I agree, but the entire time, Batman was stating in the dialogue that Tim knew that he was dead, he knew there wasnt a chance, yet he was begging Bruce to do something. He lost it. AND, I think you're being a little hard on Nightwing. What has Cass OR Tim been through that Dick has? Dick has been in fight after fight with Bruce. He knows him better than anyone maybe aside from Alfred. He's seen teammate after teammate die. Thats why he has given up on that team thing, and if you ask me that is one step CLOSER to what is needed for him to be Batman. It would take Dick ultimately cutting all ties with his teammates and friends to become Batman, otherwise he's still Nightwing in the Batman uniform. And while Cass may be a better martial artist, I still dont think she is the fighter Nightwing is. And no, she'll never become as good as Dick or Tim at being a detective. She's not shown anywhere near the natural ability in that department the other two have. Tim has it naturally, and Dick has been trained by Bruce himself in that area. She hasnt, probably because Bruce knows its not her area of expertise.

[Justin Byrd]

Dick is worthy. Tim had natural detective skills, Cass is a beast at MA, but Dick is the one who is the most rounded.

1. He was trained by Bruce first, he knows him the best
2. His detective skills are on par (I remember from A Lonely Place of Dying where he knew who a murderer was while Tim was wrong, granted that was amateur Tim but Dick used his trained deduction). And deduction isn't just trained, it's really just a way of thinking. Dick has it, Tim has it, Cass not so much.
3. He was freaking picked by Bruce during Prodigal. That alone gives me the inkling that he is the one who would be passed the Batman mantle.

Tim's not mature enough, Cass isn't a detective. Dick would be the only one who could possibly take the mantle.

Though there isn't any real Batman unless it's Bruce Wayne. He's the true dark knight.

[Mark Blicharz]

It's Dick. Best Robin, trained the longest, almost as good as Bruce in every way.

[chrismozer]

I cannot see Tim or Dick becoming Batman. I'd like to nominate Blake Petit to take up the Mantle of The Bat. After all, his name is almost an anagram for Batman (he's just missing a few of the letters)

[Jimmy-San]

Nightwing's not THAT much of a sissy. He did get the better of Deathstroke once, which Cass has never done. Also, when they were gassed and fought Lex Luthor in S/B, Nightwing lasted much long than Robin, Batgirl, and Huntress. Besides, Nightwing got Starfire. The guy MUST have skills! :LOL: Seriously, with his experience and icon status, I think he'd fit the role best ... Though I've actually enjoyed stories about Tim Drake and The Huntress moreso.

[Justin Byrd]

Besides, Nightwing got Starfire. The guy MUST have skills! :LOL:
that's true, plus he got Barbara Gordon for a while, who I see as one of the hottest chicks in comics (if drawn correctly).

Dick's quite the player.

[Chapel]

Besides, Nightwing got Starfire. The guy MUST have skills! :LOL:


Does he? Now Nightwing is my boy but I can't think of a single relationship that he actually initiated beside Oracle(and we see how well that worked). I don't think he has skills as much as I think he is easy.


Edit: Does anyone know if Black Canary is actually interested in Nightwing...or did she just say that to try to fish information from Oracle?

[LeatherWings]

Cass'd be great, but I think the crooks can tell that a man's not a man when he has breasts. I mean you don't thin they'd wander where those have been for the past ten years of crime-fighting. I mean when a new Robin took a place he made it look like it was the same kid. I mean you don't think Bruce'd be even more freaked about who takes over his place, he's probably want Dick or whoever takes his placen to get their chin stretched just right as well, I mean he's the goddamn paranoid Batman.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

Cass'd be great, but I think the crooks can tell that a man's not a man when he has breasts. I mean you don't thin they'd wander where those have been for the past ten years of crime-fighting. I mean when a new Robin took a place he made it look like it was the same kid. I mean you don't think Bruce'd be even more freaked about who takes over his place, he's probably want Dick or whoever takes his placen to get their chin stretched just right as well, I mean he's the goddamn paranoid Batman.

Padded armor ala Ronin can fix that, and as I have said before: Cass ain't no Power Girl

[jonsnow]

Dick is the true heir. Then Tim, if Dick does not take the mantle. I would like to see Jason Todd don the cowl before Cass. Sorry, maybe I am being masogonistic, but if Cass becomes the new BatMAN I will never, ever forgive DC.

[LeatherWings]

Dick is the true heir. Then Tim, if Dick does not take the mantle. I would like to see Jason Todd don the cowl before Cass. Sorry, maybe I am being masogonistic, but if Cass becomes the new BatMAN I will never, ever forgive DC.

Well its better than them killing her off like I'm thinking they will.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

Dick is the true heir. Then Tim, if Dick does not take the mantle. I would like to see Jason Todd don the cowl before Cass. Sorry, maybe I am being masogonistic, but if Cass becomes the new BatMAN I will never, ever forgive DC.

why not? padded armor can hide her gender, some device that changes her voice when she speaks...and voila! Batman

Why are poeple so damn afraid of it? It's happened before, Mattie Franklin was Spiderman for a while

[Downfall]

why not? padded armor can hide her gender, some device that changes her voice when she speaks...and voila! Batman

Why are poeple so damn afraid of it? It's happened before, Mattie Franklin was Spiderman for a while
And that sucked royally. What did she accomplish as "Spider-Man" besides get her head handed to her by a jobber named the Ranger?

[Ammar Al Subahi]

And that sucked royally. What did she accomplish as "Spider-Man" besides get her head handed to her by a jobber named the Ranger?

I never said it was good, but it has happened. People think that all comic women/girls are Powergirl or something, they are not. Their gender can be concealed.

Man if I could draw then I would show you some cool concepts that I've thought out.

[Downfall]

I never said it was good, but it has happened. People think that all comic women/girls are Powergirl or something, they are not. Their gender can be concealed.
No, that's not what I'm saying. No doubt Cassie could wear the suit, could even pass as Bats with a bit of padding (okay, a lot of padding. And probably platform shoes) but she shouldn't. Nobody'd buy it, not the crooks, and certainly not the readers.

[Arsenal7]

I think this is sorta a trick question; logically, historically, dick grayson is the heir to the bat. over time, however, tim is written as perhaps the most like bruce (emotionally as well as mentally- especially since his father's passing) and cass is written as the best fighter (though she's apparently either about to die or lead her own band of merry folk). nightwing has been written a bit, unevenly, shall we say lately. Recent off the top of the head example- within the first three arcs of The Outsiders he managed to get virtually the entire team severely wounded, was told on several occasions he was pathetic considering that he came from "the best," was intimidated by Huntress because he desires her sexually, and WENT TO AMERICA'S MOST WANTED TO FIND A CRIMINAL!!!!! Can one really see the heir to Batman contacting John Walsh instead of, say, being a DETECTIVE. So, I don't think it's Dick's fault: as I said, logically and historically, he should be the Bat. But, because he's been around much longer than Tim/Cassie, DC (and some of its writers) have at times written him in a fashion that makes his ascendency a bit harder to swallow.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

No, that's not what I'm saying. No doubt Cassie could wear the suit, could even pass as Bats with a bit of padding (okay, a lot of padding. And probably platform shoes) but she shouldn't. Nobody'd buy it, not the crooks, and certainly not the readers.

Did the crooks know when Az took over as Batman? I don't see any problem with Cass imitating Bruce, seeing she is taskmaster lite that should be no problem for her. Plus she could get tutored in the detective department by either Alfred or Tim

[Ammar Al Subahi]

I think this is sorta a trick question; logically, historically, dick grayson is the heir to the bat. over time, however, tim is written as perhaps the most like bruce (emotionally as well as mentally- especially since his father's passing) and cass is written as the best fighter (though she's apparently either about to die or lead her own band of merry folk). nightwing has been written a bit, unevenly, shall we say lately. Recent off the top of the head example- within the first three arcs of The Outsiders he managed to get virtually the entire team severely wounded, was told on several occasions he was pathetic considering that he came from "the best," was intimidated by Huntress because he desires her sexually, and WENT TO AMERICA'S MOST WANTED TO FIND A CRIMINAL!!!!! Can one really see the heir to Batman contacting John Walsh instead of, say, being a DETECTIVE. So, I don't think it's Dick's fault: as I said, logically and historically, he should be the Bat. But, because he's been around much longer than Tim/Cassie, DC (and some of its writers) have at times written him in a fashion that makes his ascendency a bit harder to swallow.

EXACTLY my point about NW. He should be, but he's not proven himself worthy seeing how he's been these times

[Magnus2k]

I think this is sorta a trick question; logically, historically, dick grayson is the heir to the bat. over time, however, tim is written as perhaps the most like bruce (emotionally as well as mentally- especially since his father's passing) and cass is written as the best fighter (though she's apparently either about to die or lead her own band of merry folk). nightwing has been written a bit, unevenly, shall we say lately. Recent off the top of the head example- within the first three arcs of The Outsiders he managed to get virtually the entire team severely wounded, was told on several occasions he was pathetic considering that he came from "the best," was intimidated by Huntress because he desires her sexually, and WENT TO AMERICA'S MOST WANTED TO FIND A CRIMINAL!!!!! Can one really see the heir to Batman contacting John Walsh instead of, say, being a DETECTIVE. So, I don't think it's Dick's fault: as I said, logically and historically, he should be the Bat. But, because he's been around much longer than Tim/Cassie, DC (and some of its writers) have at times written him in a fashion that makes his ascendency a bit harder to swallow.

Thats not a bad thing. Dick is MEANT to be similar to Bruce in some ways, and opposite in some. He's the ONLY one that will stand up to Bruce. Think back on the Bruce Murderer arc, who was the one that stood up to him? Most were shocked at Batman's choice to drop Bruce, but Dick took him to blows. He's meant to be the light in the dark. That is why I think he should NOT take over as Batman cause he's his own character. But he is the CLOSEST to a Batman as you could get. Tim has the detective skills, not the experience. Cass has the fighting skills, but not the detective skills. And she'd have to wear huge lifts in her shoes and LOTS of padding to pull off being Batman image. That would effect her fighting tremendously. Dick has it all.

[Downfall]

Did the crooks know when Az took over as Batman?
Bane did...

[Justin Byrd]

Bane did...
I think Joker knew too, but it was only because he knew SOMEONE was different under the cowl, he's tangled with the Bat too many times to not figure that one out.

Actually I think he knew when it was Dick as well...

[Downfall]

Bane knew almost immediately Jean Paul wasn't him. It was kind of obvious.

[Justin Byrd]

Bane knew almost immediately Jean Paul wasn't him. It was kind of obvious.
Well yeah, but that was because Bane broke his frigging back, and knew that Bruce and Batman were one and the same. Joker knew it was someone different too.

Regular run of the mill criminals didn't, as evidenced later when they begged Batman not to kill them like "he" did with Abbatoir (sp?)

[Magnus2k]

Gordon knew as well.

[LeatherWings]

I think this is sorta a trick question; logically, historically, dick grayson is the heir to the bat. over time, however, tim is written as perhaps the most like bruce (emotionally as well as mentally- especially since his father's passing) and cass is written as the best fighter (though she's apparently either about to die or lead her own band of merry folk). nightwing has been written a bit, unevenly, shall we say lately. Recent off the top of the head example- within the first three arcs of The Outsiders he managed to get virtually the entire team severely wounded, was told on several occasions he was pathetic considering that he came from "the best," was intimidated by Huntress because he desires her sexually, and WENT TO AMERICA'S MOST WANTED TO FIND A CRIMINAL!!!!! Can one really see the heir to Batman contacting John Walsh instead of, say, being a DETECTIVE. So, I don't think it's Dick's fault: as I said, logically and historically, he should be the Bat. But, because he's been around much longer than Tim/Cassie, DC (and some of its writers) have at times written him in a fashion that makes his ascendency a bit harder to swallow.

Well...maybe the Crisis will retcon Devin Grayson's Nightwing, then we can all go back to saying Dick is best suited, but yes I think somewhere during Grayson's run Dick started taking horny pills, and went crazy on sex, so blame the pills not the man dude. I mean seriously hopefully he'll be satisfied, cuz seriously the guy's too busy trying to find some place to sleep that night, to say hey I know maybe I shouldn't be undercover for a mob or work for Deathstroke.

Seriously though maybe Grayson's last issue will make up for it with the whole drastic thing happens to Dick, but judging by the current state, it'll be "guess what people Dick's an alcoholic" or "guess what people Dick's on viagra" or ...you get the picture, some other explenation for the past 50+ issues being lame most the time.

But yeah up until 50 issues ago, Dick was perfect for Bruce's replacement.

[Magnus2k]

See, thats where i disagree. The happy go loving Nightwing wouldnt do near as well as the Nightwing now. The nightwing now is haunted, he's troubled, and he's forsaken teammates and friends. Sound familiar? I think it drags him closer to being Batman. But, we all know that if someone, which it seems from the new previews is, takes Batman's place it wont be for long.

[S.A. Parvaze]

When I think of Nightwing or any of the other Robins, I can't help but think "Elfin Shoes." Sure, they haven't shown up on any Robin in years, but that always stops me short of ever considering a Robin for the job of the bat. :dunce:

[LeatherWings]

When I think of Nightwing or any of the other Robins, I can't help but think "Elfin Shoes." Sure, they haven't shown up on any Robin in years, but that always stops me short of ever considering a Robin for the job of the bat. :dunce:

Yes, but rumors have it that Bruce used to dance around in those shoes as a kid.

[Chapel]

nightwing has been written a bit, unevenly, shall we say lately. Recent off the top of the head example- within the first three arcs of The Outsiders he managed to get virtually the entire team severely wounded, was told on several occasions he was pathetic considering that he came from "the best," was intimidated by Huntress because he desires her sexually, and WENT TO AMERICA'S MOST WANTED TO FIND A CRIMINAL!!!!! Can one really see the heir to Batman contacting John Walsh instead of, say, being a DETECTIVE.

1) Why does no one mention that every single member of the Outsiders who got hurt was hurt WHILE BEING TEAMED WITH JADE? She was there for every single beating. That is not Nightwing's fault at all.

2)He has problems with Huntress because he has feelings for her and she uses that to her advantage.....that just comes with the territory of being a guy.

3)He went public to John Walsh because that arc of the Outsiders was all about raising public awarness of a real life problem....are you seriously holding that against him? As far as detective work goes Tim Drake has been his only real competition for the spot of the best(since for the last 4 years Batman has been letting Oracle do all the work)


So, I don't think it's Dick's fault: as I said, logically and historically, he should be the Bat. But, because he's been around much longer than Tim/Cassie, DC (and some of its writers) have at times written him in a fashion that makes his ascendency a bit harder to swallow.
The ONLY reason I don't want Grayson to be Batman is because I have yet to be convinced that his "batman" would be a more interesting character than his "nightwing". It has nothing to do with his current skill set or personallity.


I also think his latest arc(which I am loving by the way) shows just one more think Dick has over his rivals. He is a mastermind, once again only Tim Drake is close to matching him in this area.


Cass just doesn't have the metal to be Batman.
She isn't a detective.
She isn't scary.
She doesn't think ahead.

[Chapel]

why not? padded armor can hide her gender, some device that changes her voice when she speaks...and voila! Batman

Why are poeple so damn afraid of it? It's happened before, Mattie Franklin was Spiderman for a while

Cause it usually sucks. Also when it comes to the streetlvler's "I have no powers" arena the idea that a woman can physically match a man is hard to believe....especially the way comic females are drawn.