Batman can't kill people. Why is that so hard?

[Chapel]

Batman can't kill people. Its not unrealistc, its not stupid, its a fact of the character. I am really starting to get tired of people saying Batman should just kill "insert villian name here" and be done with it.

1) Batman not wanting anyone to die and not being willing to take any human life is as much apart of his character as his trust and anger issues. I don't understand how people can buy the trauma of Batman seeing his anger die drove him to dress up like a giant Bat and left him with a great personal distaste for firearms, but the idea that Batman is about as close in incapable of taking a life as you can get is somehow unrealistic.

2) Its not practical. Commissioner Gordon has told Batman on many occasions that if Batman ever kills anyone the Commiss will take him down personally. Batman’s bad relationship with the Gotham PD is making his job hard as it is, if Batman were to actually kill someone the pressure that would be leveled against him would make his job impossible.

3) As a rule you can’t trust Superheroes that kill. It is almost always a sign of a moral falling or mental instability. The Superhero community polices itself. Given that they all operate in such a gray area of the law there are not a lot of guidelines to go by when one of there kind needs to be brought down, but killing is a pretty clear indication that this particular hero is just going to cause pain and heartache down the road.

4) Superheroes, especially in the DC universe, are allowed to exist because of the goodwill of the public. Do you really think that if the heroes started killing they would be allowed to continue to operate?

The DC government is corrupt. Black Ops, the Suicide Squad, Black mail, there are tons of ways for a “supervillian” to avoid punishment. The DC general public is just a culpable for allowing the “meta gene” defense(which states that the mere presence of the meta gene is enough evidence to show that a person was not responsible for their actions) and for not imposing stricter guidelines on when the insanity defense can be used(the freaking penguin has been able to pled insanity). The joker has been in police custody how many times? How many times has Deadshot been under the knife to save his life? How many members of the Rouges have just gotten off by doing a stint in the Suicide Squad? I think there is blood on the hands of those who do not permanently end the problems “supervillians” present, but blaming a Superhero because he will not or can not kill others while excusing/ignoring the numerous other people involved who can legally “end the threat” ludicrous to me.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

I agree, it's not Batman's fault that let's say the Joker escapes prison all the time, it's the state's fault.

However, the thing that bothers me most with Batman is his "psycho rep" which is totally ridicoulus, especially since he doesn't kill. But that's another discussion...

[lennygray]

about Wonder Woman killing Max Lord... the public didn't see WHY she did it, so they don't understand it... now, if Batman started killing villains right and left, he's lowered himself to their level...

Batman doesn't kill because his traumatic witnessing of his parents' murder ingrained a revulsion of killing, along with a revulsion against firearms.

why is that hard to understand?

[Frozone]

I Get Why he dosent kill the Joker!

But I don't get whay he resussitated the joker after he died.

2) Why is the Joker still alive period is bugging me out. He must have commited over 39 capitol offenses. And thats intra and inter state as well. At this point the federal government has the right to step in. And since as long as he lives Joker will escape and kill people. Well He should have killed by somebody a looooong time ago.

[Chapel]

I Get Why he dosent kill the Joker!

But I don't get whay he resussitated the joker after he died.

2) Why is the Joker still alive period is bugging me out. He must have commited over 39 capitol offenses. And thats intra and inter state as well. At this point the federal government has the right to step in. And since as long as he lives Joker will escape and kill people. Well He should have killed by somebody a looooong time ago.

I honestly don't think Batman(or most heroes for that matter) make a difference between letting someone die and killing them. Its why Nightwing was so shook up even though technically he didn't do anything to Blockbuster.

[lennygray]

the reason Batman resusitated the Joker (you may have to remind me about when this happened... Hurricane Katrina has royally screwed with my comics buying for the past four months)

...the reason is because Batman values life... any life... every life, no matter how reprehensible... he just does NOT want anyone to die...

[Blake Petit]

Indeed. I think it was said best in "Kingdom Come" -- when you strip away everything else that makes Batman, all the training, all the gadgets, all the skill, you're left with a little boy who doesn't want to see ANYONE die.

[Justin Byrd]

I Get Why he dosent kill the Joker!

But I don't get whay he resussitated the joker after he died.

2) Why is the Joker still alive period is bugging me out. He must have commited over 39 capitol offenses. And thats intra and inter state as well. At this point the federal government has the right to step in. And since as long as he lives Joker will escape and kill people. Well He should have killed by somebody a looooong time ago.
By somebody for revenge yes, but he's not competent to get the Death penalty. He doesn't see right from wrong, he thinks it's all a joke. He's just nuts.

But yeah, if he had done the things he's done, and someone I loved was involved, I'd put a bullet in his brain. That's why Batman is better than me :)

[Faust]

Agreed with Ammar. The "no killing" rule makes sense. And Batman is not the one to blame, since their are so many others who could prevent, for example, Joker from continually escaping and killing.

However, what makes no sense at all is Batman's rep scaring villains so much when they have to know by now he not only won't kill them, he will save them if they look like they are in danger.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

Agreed with Ammar. The "no killing" rule makes sense. And Batman is not the one to blame, since their are so many others who could prevent, for example, Joker from continually escaping and killing.

However, what makes no sense at all is Batman's rep scaring villains so much when they have to know by now he not only won't kill them, he will save them if they look like they are in danger.

Exactly my point! I I find it extremely ridiculous, especially that other heroes with superpowers are more scared of him than his villains! HOW can he maintain the demon/ghost rep he has when he's all over the news? When people know that he's with the JLA? Don't people in Gotham watch TV? It's so dumb, DC editorial should fix this

[Blake Petit]

People DON'T know he's with the JLA -- he doesn't do press conferences and public appearances like the rest of them -- and, until War Crimes, he WASN'T all over the news. Crooks didn't know that he wouldn't kill them, most street-levle hoods didn't even know for sure if he EXISTED. He was a myth, an urban legend, a boogeyman that preyed on evil. And even now that he's shown up on the news, that doesn't make him less terrifying to the average burglar.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

People DON'T know he's with the JLA -- he doesn't do press conferences and public appearances like the rest of them -- and, until War Crimes, he WASN'T all over the news. Crooks didn't know that he wouldn't kill them, most street-levle hoods didn't even know for sure if he EXISTED. He was a myth, an urban legend, a boogeyman that preyed on evil. And even now that he's shown up on the news, that doesn't make him less terrifying to the average burglar.

But they kow that his rogues, the Penguin, Juker, Two Face and allthe others ALL come back for more.

[Blake Petit]

If they don't know for certain that he even exists, what difference does it make if they know the Joker is still alive? They don't know who keeps bringing him in. It's not like the GCPD puts out press releases saying, "Hey, everyone, Batman caught the Penguin for us again!"

[Orb]

He doesnt kill, but isnt across-the-board against it either. He would have let Clark kill Lex in S/B in the first arc. I wouldnt say it is totally extant from his character to conceptualize the death of a major threat (not that I support that).

[Ammar Al Subahi]

If they don't know for certain that he even exists, what difference does it make if they know the Joker is still alive? They don't know who keeps bringing him in. It's not like the GCPD puts out press releases saying, "Hey, everyone, Batman caught the Penguin for us again!"

Which would make Gothamaties even more stupid. What about those who get caught by Batman and tell it further to their friends? And Batman doesn't arrest all people, like when he's pursuing some crimeboss or something and a couple of goons get in his ways. These people also spread the truth.

Don't forget the fact that a man, The Black Mask, took the city right under the Bat's nose. So much for avengening ghost rep... The ghost thing worked before when Batman was new, but after events like Knightfall and War Games, people SHOULD know that Batman is only human. I find Punisher more scarier then Batman, the things Frank does to criminals makes Batman's schtick look like kindergarden

[Blake Petit]

Those who escape to tell their friends?

"Gasp -- choke -- sputter..."

"Bill, what's wrong?"

"This... this thing! It was... it was like a giant freaking BAT!"

"Suuuuure, Bill. You've been drinking again, haven't you?"

Black Mask, "a man"? What on EARTH does that even MEAN?

Yeah, he took the city, but didn't exactly do it "under Batman's nose." He was smart enough to take advantage of a chaotic gang war that ran Batman ("a man") ragged.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

Those who escape to tell their friends?

"Gasp -- choke -- sputter..."

"Bill, what's wrong?"

"This... this thing! It was... it was like a giant freaking BAT!"

"Suuuuure, Bill. You've been drinking again, haven't you?"

Black Mask, "a man"? What on EARTH does that even MEAN?

Yeah, he took the city, but didn't exactly do it "under Batman's nose." He was smart enough to take advantage of a chaotic gang war that ran Batman ("a man") ragged.

Yeah, and what about the Penguin, who basicly LAUGHS at Batman? Do you honestly think that he would allow his goons to talk such rubbish? He'd give them a slap each and tell them what Batman really is, nothing but a man. Heck even Black Masked stated that infront of what looked like 100+ of criminals, he shouted out that he's "nothing but a man" while they were fighting him.

And WHY would this ghost of vengence keep teenage sidekicks with him? You don't think that alone makes the superstitious lot raise their eyebrows? Couple that with the fact that he doesn't kill and that his rougues aren't scared of him one bit, I'd chalk it all up to PIS. The people of Gotham can't be THAT stupid.

[Blake Petit]

For Heaven's sake, it's a comic book. Nothing you said there is more implausible than a man putting on a bat costume in the first place. There has to be a certain amount of suspension of disbelief or you can't read anything in a superhero universe. By the same logic, why don't all the crimelords in New York hire an army of mercenaries to blow the Punisher to smithereens? Because then they couldn't put him in any more comic books.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

For Heaven's sake, it's a comic book. Nothing you said there is more implausible than a man putting on a bat costume in the first place. There has to be a certain amount of suspension of disbelief or you can't read anything in a superhero universe. By the same logic, why don't all the crimelords in New York hire an army of mercenaries to blow the Punisher to smithereens? Because then they couldn't put him in any more comic books.

That's what they DID, they SENT several mercenaries against the Punisher.

Explain to my WHY superheroes like Kyle Rayner are crapping their pants for no reason when they meet Batman? DC Editorial trying to make Batman look hardcore. Although Kyle Rayner is a bad example because he's a wimp.

That's the whole point, DC Editorial should either have Batman live up to his reputation by seriously putting fear into his rogues or drop the whole ghost thing entirely

[PukeDrunk]

I don't blame anyone for not killing any of Batman's rogues. I blame everyone, Batman included, for not finding a more permanent solution than stuffing them into an easily escapable Asylum.

[Blake Petit]

I blame whoever is in charge of security at Arkham. Worst security chief ever!

[Justin Byrd]

I blame whoever is in charge of security at Arkham. Worst security chief ever!
What about that Lock Up guy from the animated series? He was hardcore at security. A sadist, yes...but they had a rough time trying to get out.

[Chapel]

Exactly my point! I I find it extremely ridiculous, especially that other heroes with superpowers are more scared of him than his villains! HOW can he maintain the demon/ghost rep he has when he's all over the news? When people know that he's with the JLA? Don't people in Gotham watch TV? It's so dumb, DC editorial should fix this

That is the Red Hoods point. None of the "costume" villians are scared of Batman because they know he won't kill him. However I think it makes perfect sense that most of the people in the "villian" community are scared of Batman because honesty how many "heroes" will go as far as Batman will. He doesn't kill but he has crippled a lot of people. Not to mention all the mental damage.
I mean we allll know the dark can't hurt us, but I bet most of us still feel a little uneasy in the dark. Batman is the same way. I mean you know he won't kill you , but there are a lot of things worst than death.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

That is the Red Hoods point. None of the "costume" villians are scared of Batman because they know he won't kill him. However I think it makes perfect sense that most of the people in the "villian" community are scared of Batman because honesty how many "heroes" will go as far as Batman will. He doesn't kill but he has crippled a lot of people. Not to mention all the mental damage.
I mean we allll know the dark can't hurt us, but I bet most of us still feel a little uneasy in the dark. Batman is the same way. I mean you know he won't kill you , but there are a lot of things worst than death.

When has Batman EVER crippled anyone? Sure he's broken some bones and stuff, but he hasn't snapped any thug's spine or mangled somebody's arm and stuff like that

[Captain Marvel]

The only time I remember it happening is in "The Dark Knight Returns" to a bank robber while tracking down Two-Face. He kicked the guy in the gut and broke his back. He said, "He's young, he'll probably walk again. But he'll stay scared, won't you punk?"