Is Robin realistic?

[Chapel]

I have heard a lot of people mention how the idea of a "robin" just doesn't make any sense. Alex Ross has stated that he thinks the whole concept of Robin is rediculous because placing a child in danger is the one compromise you would think Batman would never make. What do you think?

[Magnus2k]

Well, back in teh day, when Robins were 13 and such, I agree. But I think Tim Drake started at what, 15? And even the others, they were so well trained, and quite sheltered, it isnt like they were out alone. So, I guess in a way, yes, it is unbelievable, yet in a way I can see it.

[Six_Winged]

I kinda agree with Ross. Comic-wise though, it's batman's fault he keeps accepting them. He sure have learned from his experience with j. todd but somehow, DC just replaced him with Tim. It's just legacy i guess and the nature of comics where everything is possible with less regards to some logic here and there.

[Blake Petit]

Robin was created as a proxy for the reader -- so there was somebody there Batman could explain the plot to in case the kids reading the comic book in 1940 didn't follow the details of the clues of the mystery.

Since then, he's become a legacy character, and I'd hate to see him go away. I think Tim Drake did a very good job of arguing the case for the character in A Lonely Place of Dying -- he's the balance, he's what keeps Batman from going too far into the darkness.

Is he realistic? No, not really. But I don't think he's any more unreal than a man running around in a batsuit, a guy getting bit by a radioactive spider, or someone who turns into a green giant thanks to a Gamma explosions instead of being turned into billions of little glowing pieces...

[WhereIsTony]

to be fair a guy being bitten by a radioactive spider is, in and of itself not that ridiculous.


:rolleyes: :banana: :rolleyes:

[Blake Petit]

to be fair a guy being bitten by a radioactive spider is, in and of itself not that ridiculous.


Okay, okay, a guy getting bitten by a radioactive spider (which somehow survived being irradiated, however briefly) and gaining spider-powers instead of gaining leukemia. :p

[WhereIsTony]

Yeah my pitch for Leukemia man, is why Stan/Jack/Tony quickly became Stan/Jack

[Eric Barrett]

I agree with Blake's comments, but let me add one of my own. I think if there's one thing Batman believes in as much as making sure someone doesn't suffer the same loss he did, it is showing determination and self-reliance.

For the most part all of the Robin's and even Barbara Gordon got into the crime fighting thing on their own. I think it is very likely that even without Batman's presence they would have ended up fighting crime in one way or another. That leaves Batman with a choice: does he turn them away, knowing they are going to fight crime anyway? Or does he help them, and protect them while doing it?

So between the realization that these "kids" are going to fight crime no matter what and a respect for the determination they show, I think the "Robin scenario" makes a lot of sense. Or at least as much sense as anything in comic books make. :)

[Blake Petit]

That's a good point, Eric. When Batman took in Dick Grayson and made him the first Robin, it was to a large degree because he saw himself reflected in the boy and wanted to make sure there was someone who could guide him so he WOULDN'T wind up like Batman did.

[Chapel]

That's a good point, Eric. When Batman took in Dick Grayson and made him the first Robin, it was to a large degree because he saw himself reflected in the boy and wanted to make sure there was someone who could guide him so he WOULDN'T wind up like Batman did.


Blake that is very to close to how I feel about it. But I think it comes further than that. Bruce Wayne is an emotional cripple. I mean lets face it, the guy has permanet damage. I think when he first found Dick Grayson and saw someone in the same situation he was in Bruce Wayne reached out to Dick the only way he could. I mean we can all say Robin is an unbelievable compromise on Batman's part but honestly, what else could Bruce Wayne realistically have done to help the boy?

In Spiderman Logan made Mary Jane hate him to help her through her hard times. It had worked for him in the past so he did the one thing he knew how to do to help her....he past the hate on. Is that healthly? No, but it was all Logan had to work with.

I think Batman let Dick actually use the Robin costume and join in crimefighting not only as a form of "therapy" but also because familiy is sooooo important to Bruce. Batman is his life and it makes perfect sense that he would want to share that part of his life with those he considered familiy and given his naturally private/fearful of being hurt nature it makes sense he would try to keep anyone not considered family out of it.

I mean just look at Bane. Bruce owed him nothing but a broken back and a bullet but as soon as Bruce even suspected Bane might be family Bruce invited him in with open arms. A 24/7 psycho paraniod inviting the man who broke his back and almost destroyed his legacy into his home? That only makes sense when you considered the importance of family to Batman.

While I don't think Batman having a Robin is nessecarilly smart. I do think it make sense considering Bruce Wayne's mental instability.

[Ammar Al Subahi]

Batman taking in Dick made sense to me, he related to him. He gave him something to live for, a cause to belive in.

Batman taking in Jason also made sense, he wanted another "son" to take care of, I think that's what Batman did wrong since Jason didn't have the same determination that Dick had.

Batman taking in Tim and Spoiler didn't make sense to me

[Blake Petit]

Tim made perfect sense. HE went to BRUCE. He CONVINCED him that he needed a Robin, because Jason's death had unhinged him. In fact, Tim tried at first to get Dick to go back to Bruce and become Robin again, but when he had to save them BOTH from Two-Face, it became obvious. And unlike the other two, Tim wasn't an orphan (at the time), he wasn't "taken in" the same way.

He brought Spoiler into the family, initially, because he saw a determination in her and wanted to see if she could be made into a valuable member of the "Family." She didn't have what it took, though, and he dropped her, but when Tim quit as Robin, she snuck into the cave and Bruce accepted her -- not because of her, but to try to teach Tim a lesson. A mistake? Absolutely. But the sort of thing that fathers do sometimes...

[Eric Barrett]

not because of her, but to try to teach Tim a lesson. A mistake? Absolutely. But the sort of thing that fathers do sometimes...
I think Spoiler's stint as Robin was the only possible "mistake" Batman's made in taking on Robins. However, I've always suspected that there was something more to her picking up the mantle than to teach Tim a lesson (something as readers we don't know). I don't have any evidence, it's just that it seems out of character for Batman - and would make a cool story. :)

[Six_Winged]

Recruiting Todd seems like a mistake to me. And if he is even at right doing so, he should've given him some time off being Robin for him to reflect on his brashness.

[Blake Petit]

Recruiting Todd seems like a mistake to me. And if he is even at right doing so, he should've given him some time off being Robin for him to reflect on his brashness.

He DID.

Jason didn't WANT the time off, stole Bruce's credit cards and took off for the Middle East to try to find his mother, which is where he got himself killed.

[Six_Winged]

He DID.

Jason didn't WANT the time off, stole Bruce's credit cards and took off for the Middle East to try to find his mother, which is where he got himself killed.

He did!!! ARGHHHH!!.....Poor bruce.

[Chapel]

I think Spoiler's stint as Robin was the only possible "mistake" Batman's made in taking on Robins. However, I've always suspected that there was something more to her picking up the mantle than to teach Tim a lesson (something as readers we don't know). I don't have any evidence, it's just that it seems out of character for Batman - and would make a cool story. :)


I think what a lot of people forget is that Batman fired Spoiler from being Robin. He saw she had what it would take, he gave her a chance, saw the danger signs and he immediately fired her. He took her weapons, her access, everything. What more should/could he have done than that? When she got killed it was waaaay after he had fired her and taken steps to get her off the streets.

[Blake Petit]

That's true, he did fire her (which is what ultimately led to her accidentally starting the gang war). But it was still a mistake to "hire" her in the first place. I'm sure Bruce would be the first one to agree with that.

[Chapel]

That's true, he did fire her (which is what ultimately led to her accidentally starting the gang war). But it was still a mistake to "hire" her in the first place. I'm sure Bruce would be the first one to agree with that.

Interesting. Why do you think it was a mistake? Personally I thought that Spoiler had the makings of a fairly good Robin and when Bruce fired her I wondered if he was being over protective.

[Magnus2k]

Interesting. Why do you think it was a mistake? Personally I thought that Spoiler had the makings of a fairly good Robin and when Bruce fired her I wondered if he was being over protective.

She had skill, but not enough. Bruce COULD have molded her, possibly. But he hired her for all the wrong reasons.

[Blake Petit]

It was a mistake because she didn't have the patience or the aptitude for the job -- that's why she got fired. It was the same reason making Jason Robin was a mistake, and Batman fired her so that he wouldn't have another Robin's death on his hands. Didn't quite work out...

[Magnus2k]

It was a mistake because she didn't have the patience or the aptitude for the job -- that's why she got fired. It was the same reason making Jason Robin was a mistake, and Batman fired her so that he wouldn't have another Robin's death on his hands. Didn't quite work out...

Wellllll, it did, kind of. Just not in his mind. She didnt technically die as Robin, and she DID die after being told not to do that kind of stuff, as she wasnt cut out for it. But, Bruce doesnt see it that way. So, yea and no I guess. :banana:

[Normalman]

Well, I think obviously Robin is unrealistic. Taking a kid with no super powers and whatever training you can give him in a few months and then sending him out against a bunch of armed psychos would almost certainly result in one very dead kid. I guess the question is, is it less realistic than all the other stuff going on in comics.

For me, in one way it is, once I suspend disbelief over the powers of Superman, Spiderman, etc, I can pretty easily accept what they do. The problem with Robin is that in being an unpowered kid, each time he goes into action against a dozen armed gangsters, I keep thinking - he should be getting killed about now.

[Justin Byrd]

The concept of Robin is unrealistic, but it started so that way kids would have someone to identify with in the Batman comics. Sidekicks were a way to bring readers in.

Thing is, over the years Robin has changed to become a viable and much needed balance to the Batman mythos. As said in A Lonely Place of Dying, Batman needs a Robin to balance him, keep him grounded in his humanity rather than succumbing to the darkness. I think if handled well, Robin can be a very realistic character, as in that story and Dark Victory.

[LeatherWings]

Well its different for each side-kick.

Dick: If Bruce was that motivated after having his parents murdered, Dick would've become a vigilante as well someday, maybe not age 13, but sooner or later he would've, Bruce was just there as a helping hand.

Barbara: Same thing, she started with no help from Batman at all, the whole Batgirl thing was all she could come up with etc. once again Bruce was just there to help her out.

Jason: Yeah he would've become the next Joker at his rate, its a little mixed here, 1: Bruce couln't leave him on the street cuz he would've gotten into trouble, but 2)he could've sent him to a orphanage seeing as how the kid wasn't in any dramatic situation, but beeing who he is he took matters into his own hands, praying the kid wouldn't get killed, but maybe he should've tried to make Jason wait until he was trained, which he didn't cuz he was mad at Dick and such, but yeah Jason's dead, err was dead etc.

Tim: Sure he may have never become a vigilante maybe not even a cop or something either, but once he found out Bruce's little secret, Tim wanted to become Robin, Bruce refused at first, saying its too risky, but hell Tim wouldn't give up so its Tim's fault if he gets killed.

Cassie: She can take care of herself, and she's safer a Batgirl than she would've been without being Batgirl.

Stephanie: I don't think Batman ever noticed her too much, until it was too late.

Jean-Paul: The guy had issues, lots of issues, thats all I'm gonna say.

Hmm am I forgetting someone? Huntress wouldn't count would she?

[Ammar Al Subahi]

meh, me, I don't think that either Tim nor Steph had any real good motivation for becoming Robins. Jason and Dick and the only true Robins IMO

[Blake Petit]

Tim didn't have a good motivation? He was not only the ultimate Batman fan, but he also was smart enough to deduce his identity, and he realized that Batman NEEDED a partner to keep him from going over the edge... and he was the only one willing and able to take the job.

[PinchyWearO]

Tim didn't have a good motivation? He was not only the ultimate Batman fan, but he also was smart enough to deduce his identity, and he realized that Batman NEEDED a partner to keep him from going over the edge... and he was the only one willing and able to take the job.

And this constitutes motivation because...

[LeatherWings]

I agree with Stephanie, she really had no motivation, besides her Dad being a villain, and Batman shouldn't have let her become Robin, but I blame Batman's pride there, he was all mad at Tim and what better way to make a guy mad than get his girlfriend to join your side, he did the same thing with Dick when he became Nightwing making Batgirl(Babs) take his side(see Nightwing Year One)

But yeah Batman's a ******* like that, you think he'd learn I mean Babs got shot, and Steph got brutally murdered. But you know he'd do anything to see a girl in that old Robin suit, I think he still hates Tim for changing the suit, he sure woulda enjoyed seeing Steph in that thing. But yeah Tim had plenty of motivation, now Stephanie she could barely pass as Robin's(Tim) sidekick, but her bedroom skills made Tim change his mind. But yeah Tim>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jason, I mean Tim's a way better Robin. I mean would you have had the courage to tell the goddamn Batman "the speedo's gotta go" I mean Bruce loved that speedo.

Anyone else laugh when Tim's discussing how he can't wear the old suit, because Jason died and all, saying its got too much of a history and he doesn't deserve to wear it, not that anyone should be forced into wearing fish scales mind you, but seriously it show'd that he truly is a genius, he found a way out of the fish scales.

[Blake Petit]

And this constitutes motivation because...

:rolleyes:

From Dictionary.com:

motivation

n 1: the psychological feature that arouses an organism to action toward a desired goal; the reason for the action; that which gives purpose and direction to behavior; "we did not understand his motivation"; "he acted with the best of motives" [syn: motive, need] 2: the condition of being motivated; "his motivation was at a high level" 3: the act of motivating; providing incentive [syn: motivating]

Tim became Robin because he Batman needed him. That simple.

[PinchyWearO]

:rolleyes:

From Dictionary.com:

motivation

n 1: the psychological feature that arouses an organism to action toward a desired goal; the reason for the action; that which gives purpose and direction to behavior; "we did not understand his motivation"; "he acted with the best of motives" [syn: motive, need] 2: the condition of being motivated; "his motivation was at a high level" 3: the act of motivating; providing incentive [syn: motivating]

Tim became Robin because he Batman needed him. That simple.

Congratulations. You've proven you can cut and paste from an online dictionary, now let's see if we can apply it in context. Let's look at your arguments:


He was not only the ultimate Batman fan
I would hardly think being a fan would be motivation to dedicate ones life to his cause. Flash Thompson was the ulimate Spider-Man fan, but did not have the motivation to dedicate his life to fighting crime
he also was smart enough to deduce his identity
This measures aptitude, not an arousal "to action toward a desired goal," as your definition eloquently states.
Batman NEEDED a partner to keep him from going over the edge
This would be motivation...for Batman. Too bad it's Tim's motivation that was in question.

he was the only one willing and able to take the job.
This simply suggests some motivation existed, but adds nothing that would suggest what that motivation might be. simple as that.

Your source also states that the definition of peace is:


from dictionary.com
peace
n.
1.The absence of war or other hostilities.

Would you necessarily agree with that? I didn't think so, either.

[Chapel]

Tim didn't have a good motivation? He was not only the ultimate Batman fan, but he also was smart enough to deduce his identity, and he realized that Batman NEEDED a partner to keep him from going over the edge... and he was the only one willing and able to take the job.

Because of hero worship. This is a man he admired and loved and was inspired by and that man was about to get himself killed. Tim Drake became Robin to save his hero's life. His motivation and reasons have grown since then, but becoming a hero in order to save the life of your idol seems like a great inspiration to me.

I agree with Stephanie, she really had no motivation, besides her Dad being a villain, and Batman shouldn't have let her become Robin, but I blame Batman's pride there, he was all mad at Tim and what better way to make a guy mad than get his girlfriend to join your side, he did the same thing with Dick when he became Nightwing making Batgirl(Babs) take his side(see Nightwing Year One)

But yeah Batman's a ******* like that, you think he'd learn I mean Babs got shot, and Steph got brutally murdered. But you know he'd do anything to see a girl in that old Robin suit, I think he still hates Tim for changing the suit, he sure woulda enjoyed seeing Steph in that thing. But yeah Tim had plenty of motivation, now Stephanie she could barely pass as Robin's(Tim) sidekick, but her bedroom skills made Tim change his mind. But yeah Tim>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jason, I mean Tim's a way better Robin. I mean would you have had the courage to tell the goddamn Batman "the speedo's gotta go" I mean Bruce loved that speedo.

Anyone else laugh when Tim's discussing how he can't wear the old suit, because Jason died and all, saying its got too much of a history and he doesn't deserve to wear it, not that anyone should be forced into wearing fish scales mind you, but seriously it show'd that he truly is a genius, he found a way out of the fish scales.

Am I the only one who honestly thinks Batman thought Steph would make a good Robin? I mean when has Batman ever implied he made her a Robin just to screw with Tim? He saw she might have what it would take and he gave her a shot. She blew it and he fired her....what more could he have done and why do you think things would have turned out any differently if he hadn't made her Robin?

As for Tim Drake's costume...in Robin Year One TBP it was the design notes from where Batman created it and why certain things are in it and some things are not. Tim Drakes costume was designed by Batman. Jason's and Dick was designed by Dick.

[TNC]

Is Robin realistic?!?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

but, I like him anyway! :LOL: