Who IS the Red Hood? [Archive]

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Captain Marvel

January 29th 2006, 08:56 PM

OK, seriously. Jason Todd CAN'T be the Red Hood. He died. The Batman, arguable the world's greatest detective, personnally inspected the body, and was present at the burial. I know everyone is saying that Todd is the Red Hood, I'd just like someone to explain it to me.

Fanatix

January 29th 2006, 09:23 PM

But...he is. It hasn't been explained yet, but it will probably involve the same type of complicated, cover-up, off panel plot that led to bucky being alive. And considering how long its been since red hood was revealed to be jason and the issue explaing how he's alive, its very possible its got something to do with infinite crisis. Maybe alex and s-boy prime didn't want to see jason die and brought him back.

Or it could be as simple as ras al ghoul putting him in a lazarus pit after he died, been training him for years, and when ras died jason went rouge.

Gabriel Sosa

January 29th 2006, 09:33 PM

The Red Hood IS Jason Todd. Or, at least that is what it seems, unless he had a twin brother with matching DNA, who has most of Jason Todd's recollections, so it is HIM.
Nothing I can say is certainly a fact, but if it is, I will list it as one, ok? Supposedly we are going to get the whole explanation in Batman Annual # 25(?)
The working theory is that someone stole the body before Jason was buried, and threw him into the Lazarus Pit (probably Ra's ??)
Ok, this is what we know, that proves that Jason was never buried:
(Fact 1) Batman looked into the coffin and noticed that there was never a body inside, so he was never buried, hence somebody stole his body while at the funerary house.
(Fact 2) The Red Hood tricked Batman to the place where he met Jason for the first time, where he tried to steal the wheels of the Batmobile. The same place where Tommy Elliot made him fall during "Hush" to give a red herring that the person behind the mask was Jason.(End Fact 2)
(Fact 3) The Red Hood seems to be the same age that Jason would be now if he had never died. (Something that makes me think he was put into the pit, near the date of his death, or at least revived right away).
(Fact 4) In Batman # 639, it is stated by Jason Blood that most of the methods to revive a dead person required almost immediate access to the body after its death. Zatanna says that she thinks the Lazarus Pit can't be used to raise the dead, only to rejuvenate the living. (In particular I have never seen a dead person been raised by the Lazarus Pit, Ra's estipulates that he wanted to try that for the first time with the Waynes. But I do not recall exactly in Death & The Maidens if Nyssa killed Talia, and the sent her into the pit, or if she immersed her into the pit right before she died, I don't have the trade at my place right now, so if somebody could help with that).
(Fact 5) Red Hood, has not been a villain in the strict sense of the word, he is more of an anti-hero, he has not killed an innocent person yet, (was close twice, though); but he has no problem with killing criminals and drug dealers, something Jason Todd was shown to do before he died, or at least he was shown to walk that line, and he had no problems with that whatsoever.
(Fact 6) Red Hood got access to Titans Tower and in his inner dialogue demonstrated to be Jason Todd, besides he had a deep knowledge of Raven. And the DNA recognition system of Titan Tower read him as Jason Todd.
(Start Speculation) Now if it is almost impossible that somebody besides Jason himself and Batman knew about the exact place when they met for the first time, so it is safe to say, that Tommy did know about Jason being alive, and it is plausible Jason was, in fact, part of the Hush storyline. Now in that same storyline, The Riddler and Tommy are said to have gone to a Lazarus Pit to heal a brain tumor the Riddler supposedly had. So it makes sense Tommy knew about those Pits from before. Maybe he met Jason living somewhere under the watch of Ra's, or in charge of guarding one of those Pits, and made him the offer of getting back at Batman for allowing him to die, Jason as everybody else accepted. Once Hush's plan failed, Jason saw the War Games, and the course Gotham had taken with gangs and dealers, and decided to strike to Black Mask because of his gangster methods.(End Speculation)

Hope this helps. :)

Gabriel Sosa

January 29th 2006, 09:40 PM

Fanatix beat me to it, and he said in 10 lines, what I said in like 50, yet again. :~(

Justin Byrd

January 29th 2006, 09:44 PM

he went rouge? as in a state of redness?

I'm really sorry Fanatix, I'm such a smart***

Gabriel Sosa

January 29th 2006, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by SupesAF:
he went rouge? as in a state of redness?

:LOL::LOL::LOL:

And then you "complain" about my pickiness :D

Justin Byrd

January 29th 2006, 10:08 PM

:LOL::LOL::LOL:

And then you "complain" about my pickiness :D
Yes, because I'm so hardcore! :LOL:

Seriously though, it's because I'm such an anal retentive nerd, and then when I make mistakes I hate to admit 'em :)

AmazingMattMan

January 29th 2006, 11:32 PM

it should be explained in the batman annual. im pretty anxious for it

Jim Wright

January 30th 2006, 06:37 AM

I blame Wanda and her freakiness.

Downfall

January 30th 2006, 08:42 AM

Lol that's the reason behind everything now, Magneto not being dead, Jason Todd not being dead... :LOL:

Red Hood does seem to be Jason Todd, he gave Batman DNA samples to compare and it was a match.

How he's still alive... that's the mystery.

thtadthtshldntb

January 31st 2006, 05:47 AM

Justin Byrd

January 31st 2006, 09:25 AM

I am not the biggest Batman fan anymore (I used to read regularly like 10 or 15 years ago but lost interest when Bruce Wayne "recovered" from Knightfall and became Batman again...anyway...

You know, there are lots of DNA identical explanations available in comic terms, cloning, LMD variants, magical clones, time travel (you know how DC loves to screw their fans over with time travel).

I think it would really be a great shame if Jason Todd is alive....

It would take away the impact from that storyline... and if Jason can come back from the dead so can Max....
I kind of like the idea, I mean I'd be miffed if he came back and was a good guy, but coming back as a jaded anti-hero going against everything Bruce taught him...that's like a double failure on Bruce's part.

My only thought is that they need to make sure that the explanation behind his revival is a decent one...it needs to makes sense.

Gabriel Sosa

January 31st 2006, 09:29 AM

That is the reason why I gave more reasons than the mere DNA for Red Hood to be Jason Todd. Batman is still my favorite hero. It was obvious from Knightfall he was going to recover, just like it was obvious for Superman to come back from the dead. At least they showed Bruce recovering, and he left the mantle in the hands of Dick for a while when he went to (????? create the satellite?). Anyway I think the Red Hood is Jason. I believe that was the point of sealing the door between the living and the dead in Teen Titans after he appeared, I doubt Max, or Ted or Sue are coming back, because of what happened to their bodies, like Jason Blood explained those methods of revival require almost immediate access to the body after death.
And the working theory seems to involve Lazarus Pits which are all sealed except for the one Nyssa is possession of.

thtadthtshldntb

January 31st 2006, 10:39 AM

Why can't dead people just stay dead?

Is that too much to ask?

I mean when they kill a major character and we all go "Holy S...t" and then what's the point?

Now when someone dies, we are all like, oh well, he'll be back by the next big crossover....

Gabriel Sosa

January 31st 2006, 11:30 AM

I agree with you, dead should stay dead, that is why I was happy Bruce Wayne was crippled instead of dying. Now you have to agree that the amount of people who have stayed dead in the DC universe are a bunch.
Jason Todd should have stayed dead, yes. How many years has it been since he died? 16 years if I am not mistaken, has the character changed since his death, yes he has evolved. Is there a good explanation for his return? we still don't know, for all we know he might have been revived right away and trained by Ra's ever since, we'll have to wait for the annual, at least the stories involving the mystery have been entertaining, at least to me, and I agree with Supes here, it gave Batman a double sense of failure, that is why in IC#3 he says he wishes he could start all over again, while flashing back to his parents' death and Jason's. I mean your fourth sidekick dies and a day later your second sidekick who also died appears back with a chip on his shoulder, that is just mean, poor Bruce, and then people say that why he is the way he is. As in any other superhero has been there, and gone through that path of insanity.

Now I agree with you, Oliver Queen should have just stayed dead, but the story for his come back was a 7 out of 10, what they have done with the character ever since is WONDERFUL. So at least there is a sense of relevance. Just like Hal Jordan, I mean, I have been reading Green Lantern and nothing really good has come out of that, his return has not been relevant yet. The main reason for his return would be that at least they could get the Specter hostless and do something with IC.

And don't take this the wrong way anyone, that is the reason I am really mad at X-men right now, characters do not stay dead for more than five years, in fact many of them take only four months to get their deaths retconned. And before somebody says that is just DC fanboy rant, I am very neutral, I was a DC guy first, then I turned to be a Marvel guy more, now I am a DC guy more, but it is because of the policies for each company.
Jean Grey has died at least three times by my count, and thankfully she is not back yet. Magneto has "seemed" to die four times at least. Colossus "died", Psylocke has "died" many times, this last one she got stuffed, and she is still back, well at least we are going to see how she escaped that one in a month, but I doubt I will buy it, I already saw how she came back the other two times, Kwannon, Revanche, etc, Hawkeye died, five months later he is back thanx to Wanda, and it would not surprise me if Magick, and Doug Ramsey are back too, because they seemed to be alive by the end of House Of M. Proteus is back, Jammie Braddock is back, I mean these last two years, six characters did come back from the dead, while two are very likely to show their heads in the upcoming months. At the same time let's look at the Gen Xers which were the teenager X-men I grew up with, and those I identified the most with, because I was living through their insecurities at the same time they were: Mondo, (turned out to be evil) dead, Penance, limbo, Gaia, limbo, Synch, dead, Skin dead, and they didn't even get his name right for the tombstone it seems, Jubilee, what Austen did with her was awful and now she is depowered, Chamber, Casey and Vaughan showed all the potential he had all he could do, and now depowered, Husk, where is she? has she done something relevant ever since, yeah get a crush for Warren, and become his slave, M, at least is been written by a competent person, and one of their mentors Banshee is dead now, too. But yeah that is it. On the other hand, we get psylocke and colossus and probably doug ramsey and Illyana back.
Even the New Mutants from the eighties have more characters alive and still powered: Wolfsbane, Sunspot, Karma, Magma, can I count Empath here? all well and powered. Danielle Moonstar, depowered, why?? I don't know, what DeFillipis and Weir were doing with her was amazing. Doug Ramsey died, but then fused with Warlock, and we got Douglock, who is a different entity yes I know, but then again it still counts for something, but I believed, Douglock was killed too, or at least I was told, but I would not be surprised if he wasn't, and Illyana Rasputin died. So it seems that now, all of them are back and well. Maybe I should just wait for the decade 2010 to see the Gen Xers reunion.

thtadthtshldntb

January 31st 2006, 03:50 PM

This is why, after my return to comic reading after like ten years, the only x title I read is Cable and Deadpool and that is not because of Cable whom I feel has drifted far from his original potential... I just love Deadpool...

I agree that a good storyline can justify a return from the dead... but it can also ruin a good storyline involving the original death....

Jiggaman Tiga

February 15th 2006, 10:55 PM

Tiso

February 15th 2006, 11:19 PM

im sorry, but i just dont get see how DC can justify bringing back a guy who was VOTED TO DIE!!! its not like he was a loved character like supes or magneto. he was the most hated robin and that was proved by the fact that in a straight vote of to live or to die, HE WAS VOTED TO DIE!!! lol :yes:

He was not most hated. It was the poll that decided it, plain and simple. Live or die. Cool gimmick at the time, of course going back on their world is not cool and defeats the entire purpose of it.

Justin Byrd

February 16th 2006, 10:45 AM

Many fans were upset w/ Jason's death...there were fans who actually liked his character. The vote was incredibly close too.

Anyway, it wasn't like they brought him back as a good guy though. With his Punisher-esque attitude and apparently really awesome MA skills he's grown into a likable villain/anti-hero.

S.A. Parvaze

February 16th 2006, 10:47 AM

im sorry, but i just dont get see how DC can justify bringing back a guy who was VOTED TO DIE!!! its not like he was a loved character like supes or magneto. he was the most hated robin and that was proved by the fact that in a straight vote of to live or to die, HE WAS VOTED TO DIE!!! lol :yes:
I believe the margin was something like 75 votes. So clearly it was a close call.

Craig Reade

February 16th 2006, 11:44 AM

If Jason Todd ever breaks the fourth wall, those 75 people are in SERIOUS trouble... :LOL:

Gabriel Sosa

February 16th 2006, 04:21 PM

If Jason Todd ever breaks the fourth wall, those 75 people are in SERIOUS trouble... :LOL:

:LOL:
Well I do agree with everyone, if we make a poll about people wanting Magneto to die, I bet the call would be close too.
Anyway I am happy with the way Jason returned, mostly first giving him a purpose, then having him carry out his mission, then showing us he is walking the line, without falling on either side, finally explaining why he is back. (Which I am sure has been well crafted, since clues have been laid everywhere).

thtadthtshldntb

February 16th 2006, 06:38 PM

Jiggaman Tiga

February 17th 2006, 09:01 PM

I believe the margin was something like 75 votes. So clearly it was a close call.

yeah i knew it was close (and 75 is INCREDIBLY close) but that really doesnt change anything. he was voted to die....I'm willing to bet that Dick or Tim wouldnt have suffered that fate. So even if the vote was by a spread of 7500, 75,or just 1, it doesnt matter. HE WAS VOTED TO DIE!!!! do u honestly think that if the vote would have applied to Mags or Supes that they would have been voted to die? it probably wouldnt even be close. and i agree with the previous post...death shouldnt be a gimmick, even though i seriously doubt they had plans to bring Jason back until Infinite Crisis.....

S.A. Parvaze

February 18th 2006, 03:01 AM

yeah i knew it was close (and 75 is INCREDIBLY close) but that really doesnt change anything. he was voted to die....I'm willing to bet that Dick or Tim wouldnt have suffered that fate. So even if the vote was by a spread of 7500, 75,or just 1, it doesnt matter. HE WAS VOTED TO DIE!!!! do u honestly think that if the vote would have applied to Mags or Supes that they would have been voted to die? it probably wouldnt even be close. and i agree with the previous post...death shouldnt be a gimmick, even though i seriously doubt they had plans to bring Jason back until Infinite Crisis.....
Yeah, he was voted to die. So what? That was 17-18 years ago. Decisions get overturned all the time. And DC is under no obligation to stick to that vote.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him back either. I don't like continuity headaches (and for that matter, I've never been too fond of and of the Robins). But DC had the right, and it's certainly sparked interest. This discussion is proof of that.

Fanatix

February 22nd 2006, 02:03 AM

Death should not be a gimmick.

When somone dies, the death should either be meaningful in and of itself, or the circumstances creating the death should be. Rarely you actually get a death like Uncle Ben's where both are the case...

I have no problem with death in comic books. Whether it be the huge events like supermans, jean greys, robins, donna troys deaths, or just c-listers thrown into the crossfire. That idea that a fan favorite, even if hardly seen, character can die at any moment drives a lot of the suspense and drama in comics. We all know that the big guns aren't gonna die, so its the smaller characters deaths that can sometimes drive the drama. For example, blue beetle being shot in the head all of a sudden. A lot of people felt it was a needless death, but really countdown wouldn't have been the jaw-dropping amazing book it was without it. So if a death is needed for a good story, then i'm all for it.

What I hate is the RETURNS. If somebodys gonna kill of a character thats either A or C level, I want to see them stay dead. Rebirths take a lot of the drama out of deaths, and its why c-lister deaths have become so common, because we know if a big names gonna get killed their just gonna come back. And thats annoying as hell, especially since the majority of the time its done horribly. I can only think of maybe 2-3 people comming back to life where the story and rationale behind it was good and made sense.