Batman is no Captain America or Wolverine...

[SSJ4Wolverine]

Not tryin to pick a fight, but I just heard some people debating about Bats, Cap, and Jimmy and how comparable their physical strength is....a lot of people were commenting that Bruce is on par with Steve (that is Caps name right?) and Logan...

IMO Batman may be called a peak human...but physically, Cap and Logan are much much stronger...Batman is more of a 12 steps ahead thinker than the other two, and thats what gives him the edge...but physically..I don't think he can touch wolverine or Cap..I don't care how driven he is in his revenge...he's not benching 1000lbs...or he shouldn't be able to....cap's anatomy and physiology are affected by the super soldier formula, which obviously enhanced his strength....and wolverine's muscles tear and rebuild almost instantly due to his healing factor..so he could probably workout 3 times a month and have the perfect body..i think their both at superhuman levels if you ask me....but Batman?....just a guy in a black costume and cape who works out A LOT...does he match up?

Maybe someone can enlighten me...I figured Gotham Central would be a good spot to ask about Batman...

[Adam Chapman]

Cap's strength is the absolute limit and peak of human physical strength. Wolverine's... he doesn't have super strength, he has typical normal strength for someone who engages in fairly regular exercise. Batman trains all the time, so he'll have high stamina and strength, but I doubt it would match Steve's. Bats doesn't have a formula which brings him all those steps up.

[Picard]

I think they all are fairly even in strength. Bruce might be weaker but it's not by alot.
I Cap and Logan are a 9 or a 10 (on a 10-scale in strength) I would put Bruce on atleast 8.

[Gippal]

If you train your body to its limit, as far as I'm concerned you are a "peak human."

[Magneto X]

Wolverine's healing factor keeps him at absolute peak human (and the adamantium provides weight and structural advantages and makes sure no previous injuries slow him down). He's a "10.2" Cap is at absoute peak human based on the serum. He's a "10." But Batman without tech would likely be slightly less than absoulte peak, maybe "9.9" and, after serious injuries that would provide permanent scaring, bone or nerve damage, even slightly lesser.

[Justin Byrd]

If Batman isn't peak human, then he's close. I'm pretty sure he can bench nearly 1000 lbs. Cap's stronger, but not by much, and IMO Batman has the most knowledge of martial arts in the multiverse, with maybe the exception of Lady Shiva.

[Magneto X]

In terms of strength of actual humans, I don't think anyone has benched anywhere close to 1000 pounds (half a ton). The top limit is closer to 700 pounds, I thought, and that's people who do nothing but go for lift strength, which might not correlate directly to agile fighting strength.

[CPT Space Bomb]

Yah, people don't regularly bench 1000 pounds. Dead lift maybe, but not bench. Anyway, I still agree with SupesAF that Batman is one Bad MAMMA Jamma, and could, IMO; hold his own against either of them. I actually think Cap is the strongest, becuase pushing the human limits anymore than the serum did would probably have killed him. Wolverine and Batman are pretty close. But give Wolverine the serum, and his healing factor may allow him to go past human strength. Point is, they are all able to incite dirt naps.

[Fanatix]

To me this shouldn't even be a fight.

I don't care what marvels stupid guides say, captain america isn't "peak human". Hes very low superhuman level. No human should be able to survive jumping out of a helicopter with just a shield. No human can survive the wars and explosions cap's been through without tech (which is how batmans still alive).
Wolverines a mutant, hes got a steel skeletal structure, which to me means he should technically be considered more a robot with a messed up human brain and hairy skin.

[Jiggaman Tiga]

If you train your body to its limit, as far as I'm concerned you are a "peak human."

agreed. everyone wants to say that cap defines Peak Human. that may be the case in the marvel universe. but we also know the the "fastest man alive" title doesnt carry over either. remember how DC's fastest was slow in the Marvel universe and vice versa? that could be just the same with bats and cap. that being said....captain frickin america is the better fighter but bats is the smarter man and better tactian. any fight they have should be a draw. sure cap does display random superhuman feats, but bats routinely beat superhumans without the aid of any serum. i could even make a case of bats being cap at least 6/10 cuz bats has a nice little habbit of bringing the bat crew in for a little "assist". and i dont care what anyone says, the bat crew may be the most powerful force in comics with Bats callin the shots. lol. enough ranting.

[JX141]

Cap, Bats, and Wolverine are all super-human low-level or whatever.
If you believe otherwise your deluded.

Yeah if a body is trained to its limits then it is peak human "for that body", for that body is the KEY here.
I had been meaning to post asking what people thought peak human was, cuz its different in every case for every human body.
Comic book physics aside anything like what batman can do in terms of strength and then agility and speed is beyond human. Trust me no one on this earth living or dead can do "all" those things, and anyone that can perform even some of the feats of either strength or agility or speed cant even come close in the others.
The only thing that comes close is probably male Olympic gymasts in terms of agility and strength combined. The agility they prob have in the bag and most are crazy strong. However it is not the same type of strength that translates into lifting weights at the kind of level like 7 to 8 hundred pounds.

First having known some olympic level athletes and trained on par with them it is nearly impossible to train and maintain near that level and do anything else whatsoever. I dont care what any comics fan has to say about the way Batmans "determination" has been written, its ridiculous and not possible.
The only thing he has in his favor is that the time he has because he is independently weathly, but there are just not enough hours in the day to train that hard and then do much of anything else besides rest.
The super-soldier serum for cap is slightly more believable because it's an outside stimulus that enhances the body beyond normal parameters, and that can be fed into comic book physics. However that said in the REAL world even someone as independently wealthy as batman, with as much gifted intelligence, who somehow only required 4 hours of sleep a day to rest could NOT be batman the way he has been portrayed in the books.
With time enough to work out to the limits of exhaustion, with the absolute best workout regiment ever concieved, which coincidently doesnt exist, with the perfect amount of time also spent training in the absolute best martial art ever known, also doesnt exist, with the best nutritional diet ever concieved, and with the best no side-effect steriod stack ever designed for humans, and trust me you'd need it, a person still couldnt come close to doing it.

[CPT Space Bomb]

Finally someone showing Batman some love.............ARGHHHHHH!!!!
I need Batman SMILEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nick Vandergrift]

Actually Batman is ALOT like ol cappy and in my opinion alot of ways better, first off Batman has an endless amount of money, cap dont, Bruce wayne is alot smarter than steve and more agile by leaps and bounds, if batman were to seriously lead a team of formidable people he would be easily recognized as one of the greatest comic book leaders of all time w/o a doubt.

[Liam Creswick]

Wow I didnt even realize Wolveine Strenght was held in such high regard. It was always my understanding (and Opinion) the Cap was the strongest non-powerd human, a 10 if you will, Batman comming in close second at 9.5 or so, and Wolverine like an 8, maybe 8.5.

Cap and Batman are the peak strenght their own bodys can handle, and Cap is just stronger cause of the serum, and maybe his body had more potential. Wolverine always just seemed "really frigging strong" to me. He didnt have to worry about being his physical BEST cause he had those handy claws and healing factor to get the job done. Cap and Bats dont have that luxtury, so the pushed it to their limit.

[Magneto X]

Wolverine always just seemed "really frigging strong" to me. He didnt have to worry about being his physical BEST cause he had those handy claws and healing factor to get the job done.

Tell him that when he's fighting the Hulk.

It's been surmised that his superhuman sense are really a side affect of his healing factor which brings, in the way it keeps him physically young when he's like 100 years old, similarly keeps all his physical traits to "peakness." That, weighing 300 pounds, and having all his bones laced with steel, would IMO give him just slightly more than peak human strength. And slightly more if his berzerker rages come with adrenelin.

[Batmanfan79]

I agree with most that Batman is "peak human" or "low-level super" or whatever, and Captain America the same, but as far as strength goes should Wolverine be in this discussion? Not to knock him, but you don't really see him beating the crap out of people without using his claws. I see him as someone in above average shape with claws and instant healing. Any one of us on this board, if we had claws and Logan's healing powers, we'd be kicking a$$ and taking names too with or without super strength.

As for Bats and Cap, I feel they are on a different level. Most people don't have Bruce's smarts, even less his martial-arts skills. Cap has the serum and training that no normal person has. Compared to that, Wolverine just doesn't belong.

[Liam Creswick]

Tell him that when he's fighting the Hulk.

He can go toe to toe with the Hulk due to healing factor, adimantium laced bones, and the claws. NOT cause of his strenght. Thats why Bats and Cap couldent do nearly as well agiant the Hulk and Wolverine.


It's been surmised that his superhuman sense are really a side affect of his healing factor which brings, in the way it keeps him physically young when he's like 100 years old, similarly keeps all his physical traits to "peakness."
The healing factor keeps him healthy young and (ill take your word for it) gives him his senses. It doesnt naturaly build muscle. It probably keeps him from gaining weight, but it doent keep him fit, at least not enough to make him peak human strenght. Im not saying he doesnt have pipes, hes a strong guy, but he hasnt dedicated the time and effort the Bats and Cap have to building muscles all over the body.

I agree with most that Batman is "peak human" or "low-level super" or whatever, and Captain America the same, but as far as strength goes should Wolverine be in this discussion? Not to knock him, but you don't really see him beating the crap out of people without using his claws.

Agreed, you dont need to be yor physical best when you have claws for hands, industructable bones, and self healing.

[Magneto X]

Agreed, you dont need to be yor physical best when you have claws for hands, industructable bones, and self healing.

You don't need to be. But that doesn't mean he isn't.
Why does Peter Parker have good eyesight now?
Cuz all his muscles (including those around his eyes) were strengthened.
It's reasonable that the same thing that keeps Wolvis eyes, ears and nose at peak
and that keeps his age at peak
also keeps his muscles there.

[Big Evil]

Muscular strength and ki strength are fairly differant, Batman is a blackbelt, this is a differant kindof physique then Captain America's super soldier "western" strength.. Perhaps Captain America would still win in a fist-fight, infact it's very likely, but Batman's intellect would ultimate give him the win. And especialy against a loose cannon like Wolverine..

[JX141]

While I agree muscular "gym" strength is definitely different than functional strength, that gained from fighting, training in martial arts and a supportive fitness program, and in Cap's case a serum design to bring muscle tissue, reflexes, senses, and metabolic functions to the limits of ptheir potential. Captain America is not simply typical of "gym" strength he is an master/expert in boxing, judo and others, all honed with years of actual fighting into his own unique style, not just some steroid "gym" rat.

I dont care how much time and determination Batman has to become an expert in every Martial Art ever invented, work in the proper nutrition plan for his body and his level of activity, and work the perfect supportive fitness program into his daily routine, what he does is not possible for human beings from the real world to do.
So to compare him to one of "us" is ludicrous. Now based on what he does one could assume then that when comparing "normal" humans from DCU, MU and our world DCU >> real world and DCU > MU and maybe >>

[SSJ4Wolverine]

Maybe i have the terms wrong or something...but to me...'peak human level' is a level that theorhetically everyone reading this page could reach with the proper workout regiment and determination..so basically..if i had the cash and the near insanity I could be Batman...

If Captain America and Wolverine are in that same category, then we (as base-line humans) should be able to achieve their same strength...however...i've seen scans of wolverine overturning and hurling a garbage dumpster at an enemy (there are many more feats of strength but this one is enough for me), but I doubt a 'peak human' (i.e. "me" after even years of training) could do that...i'm sure Batman could probably lift one side of it...but I doubt he's physically strong enough to be counted in Caps or wolvie's level....and yea...I know Captain America could hurl that dumpster around and twirl it on his finger..I just don't think Batman is in that category...I think my MAIN point...is that I don't even think Wolverine should be counted as a human being or at human 'anything' level...and Captain America is the supreme human being...'above all other humans'..I think that Batman is right behind them, physical strength-wise...but Wolvie and Steve have their own special advantages that take them above what any normal human could EVER reach...just how i feel about it...they're just on another level...

When it comes to fighting ability, and MA skillz, I think that Bats, Logan, and Mr. Rogers are all upper tier and whoop major a$$age...IMO i think that no weapons or involved..no claws, no bat-belt, no shield...before Batman passes out, I'm sure all 3 would fight to a standstill...Batman knows 'every MA known to man,' captain america is just a beast and sooooo confident, and wolverie has recovered all 200 years of his past memories (effectively a more experienced fighter than the other two)..that all those years in mandripoor and japan and africa and everywhere else have put him to a level very comparable to the other two.....I know, I know..."wolverine fanboy"..


:wolvie: :cap: (why is there a yoda smiley, but no batman???)

[JX141]

Maybe i have the terms wrong or something...but to me...'peak human level' is a level that theorhetically everyone reading this page could reach with the proper workout regiment and determination..so basically..if i had the cash and the near insanity I could be Batman...

Actually as my earlier posts had tried to say, and hope they didnt offend anyone, but there is no way no how that anyone on this green earth could be Batman the way he is depicted in the books.

[T. Paul Stiles]

Being a Cap fanboy for 18 years+, here's my 20 cents worth...

Cap is NOT peak human or whatever. Two things spring quickly to mind. He CAN bench press 1100 pounds. He can run for a half hour and still have the heart rate (or what ever you call it) of a healthy 21 year old at rest. Both have actually happened in Cap issues. Am I supposed to just ignore them cause of some half-@@@ed explination in a handbook?

Cap could easily win an arm-wrestling match against both these cats. Winning an all out slugfest? Well THAT is a real debate. But if we are talking just about physical strength, both these cats don't even come close.

Wolverine is tough as nails. Batman? Hard to the core. But physically, they're only human (Now THESE two would be the model of "peak human" IMO).

[CPT Space Bomb]

Cap could easily win an arm-wrestling match against both these cats. Winning an all out slugfest? Well THAT is a real debate. But if we are talking just about physical strength, both these cats don't even come close.

Wolverine is tough as nails. Batman? Hard to the core. But physically, they're only human (Now THESE two would be the model of "peak human" IMO).

GREAT POST!!!

[CPT Space Bomb]

:wolvie: :cap: (why is there a yoda smiley, but no batman???)

ANOTHER GREAT POST!!

[Magneto X]

Yeah, Cap's been shown to lift 1100 pounds once or twice, and Wolverine too. Fine.
But their powers have been listed as lifting no more than around 800 pounds time and time again. Not just in directories, the powers of the Avengers and X-men are often listed as they are introduced in various comics.
Just cuz we want to believe they're stronger doesn't explain that away.
It makes more sense that they're both peak and the rare example that seems otherwise is something unusual like adrenalin strength.

[T. Paul Stiles]

Well, just because they hire some dude to write the encyclopedia entry, and that dude isn't familiar with the characters enough to get it right, that doesn't mean that I have to just ignore aspects of the character that I have read.

[Magneto X]

But it's not just the directories. How many times does a comic itself list the powers or begin by naming characters and listing their powers? Those words are more persuasive than interpreting a rare action.

[SSJ4Wolverine]

Ok....so what I'm seeing is that...Captain America is the strongest because he has the super soldier serum affected body AND he works out non-stop like a girl getting ready for bikini season...

Batman is incredibly strong, BUT only peak human, because he's well....only human..but works out crazy like me in the gym when a pretty girl walks by...only he does is ALL OF THE TIME, EVERY DAY...

And Wolverine is not necessarily above peak human, because (in all honestly, even as a wolverine die-hard fan) i know the guy would rather get drunk than lift a barbell..lol...I mean, I've seen him do some great feats of strength, but I think (like someone stated before) that he doesn't work out all of the time or push himself to the limits as much as Cap or Bats (mostly cuz he doesn't have to)...

But that leads me to this question...IF wolverine pushed himself (weight-lifting / cross training) as much as Cap or Bats, is it possible that he could surpass their physical strength?...I know he could outdo Batman (b/c IMO wolverine is a "super" human, he just has a sub human workout regimen lol), but what about the Super Soldier?

[T. Paul Stiles]

Easily. Muscle is built by them tearing and healing themselves. Theoreticlly Logan's healing factor could take him to Hulk preportions if he were to continually work out like Cap and Bats. But that's theoreticlly and only my opinion :)

[Magneto X]

I think the question is wrong.

If Wolverine's automatic healing factor, beyond bringing him to "healthy", DOES NOT ADDITIONALLY bring him to peak human condition, then Wolvi is going to always be below peak and below Cap, and even working out is not going to get him up to where Cap is.

But if Wolverine's healing factor DOES bring him to peak automatically, just as it keeps him young and keeps his senses at peak, then it doesn't matter strength-wise if he drinks or works out.

[CPT Space Bomb]

I don't think Hulk can be a case of clear cut Physics. In the past the comic has had implications on mystical attributes tied to him, not to mention that 99/100 times a human would die when exposed to gamma radiation as Bruce was. Also, the Hulk relies more off of emotion than physical strength. The madder he becomes the stronger he gets? That cannot be defied by logic. Thus, Wolverine would never be able to reach Hulk levels, as he is still somewhat tied to actual(not just comic) physics.

[SSJ4Wolverine]

I think the question is wrong.

If Wolverine's automatic healing factor, beyond bringing him to "healthy", DOES NOT ADDITIONALLY bring him to peak human condition, then Wolvi is going to always be below peak and below Cap, and even working out is not going to get him up to where Cap is.

But if Wolverine's healing factor DOES bring him to peak automatically, just as it keeps him young and keeps his senses at peak, then it doesn't matter strength-wise if he drinks or works out.


Good point...so the real question is whether or not wolverine's healing factor is "keeping" him at a certain level (in other words, holding him back) or if it will allow him to keep tearing and rebuilding his muscles over and over again until he's a mini-hulk with claws...which would be scary...

I actually think its the latter myself...I don't see why his healing factor would hold him back from rebuilding muscle...but then again...that raises another question...If wolverine were to work out and gain another 45 lbs of muscle...and then some sentinel or something were to burn the flesh and muscle off of a portion of his body...what would grow back....his original muscle or the new +45 lb muscle...*shakin my head*....tooo many questions...