Get Batman Annual NOW!

[jonsnow]

Ok this issue was sweet. I enjoyed it as much, if not more than IC #5. I knwo some people have not liked what WInnick has been doing (reviving Jason TOdd) and I know some people are going to loathe this, but I thought it was absolutely epic.

[Batmanfan79]

This issue made a lot of sense to why Jason is back. It's great how it ties into IC, and also sets things up for some good storylines in the future. I wonder if Bruce will ever find out exactly how and why Jason came back, and how Ra's and Talia will play into this story in the future

[Tiso]

Issue stunk. It should have had Crisis Tie-in on the cover, but then that would give away too much information. It did nothing but tell us how he came back and not where he is going, especially after the stuff that went down in Batman #650.

[Batmanfan79]

True, it didn't get into that, but I think this was meant to basically be an origin story, not really picking up fom the current events of Batman 650.

[Tiso]

I just did not understand the earlier parts of the issue with how he came back.

[Batmanfan79]

Yeah, a bit confusing but I took it as:

Because of SBP breaking the time barrier or whatever, certain events were reversed, like Donna Troy coming back as well as Jason dying. Jason broke out of his grave, gets hit by a car, Talia finds him and recognizes him, pushes him into the Lazarus Pit and now he's back.

Personally, I think the concept was a little hard to swallow, but I trust some of these things will get cleared up in the rest of IC and OYL.

[jonsnow]

Yeah, a bit confusing but I took it as:

Because of SBP breaking the time barrier or whatever, certain events were reversed, like Donna Troy coming back as well as Jason dying. Jason broke out of his grave, gets hit by a car, Talia finds him and recognizes him, pushes him into the Lazarus Pit and now he's back.

Personally, I think the concept was a little hard to swallow, but I trust some of these things will get cleared up in the rest of IC and OYL.
I thought it was more clear than a lot of the "resurrections" I have seen in comics. I absoltely loved this issue. It was so cool.

[Fanatix]

DAMNNNN!!!!!!

If this issue means absolutly nothing to you, you can at least be amazed at the planning of this. Hush happaned like 3 years ago, so did the first issue of bats/supes.

And this was solely an origin story, and it did alright as that. Superbody changed the timeline so tim didn't die and bruce didn't know it. If you can accept that the rest of the book falls into place very nicely. Not to mention DC has just created a brand new bad *** villian that hopefully won't get nutered like hush and prometheus.

[Batmanfan79]

True, very true. Jason should have some interesting storylines up ahead

[jonsnow]

I certainly hope so.

[Infinitor]

This may be in the wrong thread, but what the hell!,since we are talking about how Jason came back...

Spoiler: First and foremost we need to go back to COIE # 12 when Alex created or accesed the "paradise dimension" outside our Universe. This dimension seems to be outside the Universe but next to it since both are separeted by a "wall" (or a force of some kind resembling a wall). This "wall" is breakable but only when subjected by a lot of pressure, like Kal-L or SB-P strenth. Also the wall regenerates itself rather quickly (if not Kal-L would know of Alex and SB-P little escapades). Okay... in COIE #12 was stated that once our exiles enter the dimession they shouldn´t get out because that will shatter reality apart and destroy the Universe. Of course that was an editorial dessicion to avoid the use of those characters by future writers.
Also in IC #1 Lois Lane-2 said that if the "cross the breach" they could destroy Earth.
The fact that SB-P punced the wall so many times and sent shockwaves to the space-time fabric of the Universe reviving Jason Todd, creating a new Doom Patrol, etc is perfectly consistent and logical with what was stated back then in 1985.

It really amazes you how well they planned this series doesn´t it

Hope this is useful guys!:)

[Chris Partin]

Now I've been following Batman for years (probably since just before "Death in the Family") and I've got to say that I've enjoyed Winnick's run on this series as much as any other writer if not more. I mean, his whole run has been great, but the whole revelation about Jason/Red Hood - this ruined it all for me.

I've really enjoyed what's been going on with Jason/Red Hood and really was looking forward to the answer of his return to NEVER be answered and the certainty of it actually being Jason Todd to really be up in the air for a long, long time. I'm a Claremont fan so I love long drawn out plotlines and seeing how it can develop over time. I think what has been happening since Red Hood appeared has been awesome and it has developed nicely. Yeah, I know there had to be a "real" explanation eventually, and that Infinite Crisis would bring that truth to light (I hate Infinite Crisis), but "this" being the reason - Ugh!

Oh, well. On to One Year Later!

[Fanatix]

I like long drawn out plot lines to. Its one of the reasons why i'm absolutly loving infinite crisis, it's obviously been built up over the past 3 years, and also takes into account 20 years of DC history.

And the return of jason todd's been played out pretty well and for a relatively long time to. But I completly disagree that it should have gone on any longer. I would have absolutly HATED IT if Jason's origins had become like wolverines and constantly rewritten, with fake plotlines for years and years to come.

[Chris Partin]

Well, I had stopped reading DC minus Batman and Nightwing up until Identity Crisis when I started picking up EVERY DC title in anticipation for Infinite Crisis and just got burned out by that kind of long term planning. Kind of strange now that I think about it being a Claremont fan. Man, I'm messed up. LOL.

I didn't want Jason's return to be constantly re-written over the years. I feel that either Winnick or Loep needed to write that revelation and that be it. Eh. I'll live with it. I'm not boycotting DC or anything because of it. I mean, it's just a comic book. Hehe.

[Adam Chapman]

Does anyone honestly believe that this was the plan all along? Seriously? I think they changed gears long after Hush when Winick wanted to bring back Jason as the Red Hood, and then they made allowances for the Hush arc to have been his first appearance- HOWEVER- honestly, reread Hush and tell me that there was enough time for Jason to switch out with Clayface, AND THAT BRUCE WOULDN'T NOTICE? It was done WAY after the fact, and the Superboy solution is full of holds and reeks of plot device. I mean, at least Bucky's return was a great story, and had more of an effect on Captain America. Jason's return was muddied and the way that he came back is just horrible. I know that DCU resurrections can be handled that way, but it shouldn't happen to any character in Batman's universe or world, because it completely takes away from the reality and gravity of his world. The farthest extreme that its been known to go to is the healing of Bats' back, and Ra's and his Lazurus Pits. Now, if he'd been in a Lazurus pit automatically, that would have been one thing. And c'mon, Batman wouldn't have sensors on the grave that would depict movement AT ALL? That's not realistic at all given the character, his motivations and his paranoia and shame at Jason's death.

Not to MENTION that Hush was a cool villain until they took it so far that who knows who Hush really is. Who is Hush now anyway? And what happened to Tommy Elliot? Who knows? Who cares? And I wonder what the point of having Black Mask become the big crime figure was if he was just going to get killed by Catwoman?

END BATMAN RANT.

[Chris Partin]

I totally agree with you, Adam. I don't buy the whole idea that this was the "real" plan all along. I'm not going to go into a whole rant about the "4 years of build up" or whatever, but I don't think this was the plan from the beginning. I mean, Batman's own investigation that Jason's coffin was never distrubed should prove that, right?

Now, I haven't read Annual #25 (probably go pick it up this week) so I can't say from personally reading the issue how things panned out. :)

I know... I'm setting myself up for a fall for this...

[Infinitor]

It may reek of plot device but DAMM it´s a good plot device, in tune with DC History and all, this was indeed planned for a lot of time (like it or not).

I´m loving every damm minute of it!:)

[Gabriel Sosa]

During Hush there were too many hints that Tommy in fact had to be in contact with Jason Todd, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to know the place where Jason and Batman first met, a fact that was only known to Jason, Alfred and Batman. The fact that it was cut with a Batarang the rope, and Hush standing over a billboard saying Robins, too many hints he wanted to plant as if Jason was Hush, and the only way for Tommy to know those private details were if he had spoken to Jason himself, or something similar, otherwise he couldn't have known them. So what Winnick played on was in total synch with HUSH story line.
Tommy Elliot is Hush, only during the HUSH story line several people were wearing the costume, but the one orchestrating it all was Tommy. During Gotham Knights it was explained that Tommy was still Hush, and that the person posing as Tommy was once again Clayface to confuse Alfred to mislead Batman. Even though I did not like the last 10-15 issues of Gotham Knights, because of the AWFUL Bruce Wayne/Batman characterization, there were no plotholes or retcons against the Hush story.
I have not read the annual yet, so I will have to wait and emit my judgement, but Winnick handled it really well giving Jason a reason and a motive to stay amongst the living and to do the things he was doing, creating an anti-hero, before explaining how and why he was back.
I have not read the captain america bucky story.

[erichssf]

The Batman Annual was decent, but nothing to really rave about.

As concerning the whole Jason Todd being back.
Yes, SP-Prime breaking through the wall, makes sense.

As far as everthing fitting together as nicely as it has, think about this. WIth Green Lantern: Rebirth, did they have that planned from the VERY beginning? Most likely not, but the writers were able to take what was already done and fit it together nicely.

The writers get props from me, for not making it not fit and confusing everybody already more than what they are.

[MaryJane]

OMG! I want my $$$ back, this was just awlful.