EVERYTHING BUT IMAGINARY #257: THE GREAT MOVIE RIDE PART TWO-SUPERMAN ON THE SCREEN

[Blake Petit]

A few weeks back, I took you guys for a ride on the first installment of The Great Movie Ride, my ongoing quest to watch and review every comic book movie known to man. Last time, I ran down my five favorite (and five least favorite) comic book movies of all time. For this week’s installment, I’m going to talk about the films featuring my favorite superhero, Superman. Before we get started, though, let’s review the criteria for what counts, for the purposes of this experiment, as a comic book movie:

What counts: Anything that got a theatrical release, direct-to-video (or DVD) movies, and made-for-TV movies. Animated movies count. TV movies made as pilots for TV shows count if they were marketed as a movie, and movies that were made as spin-off of TV shows count with the same qualification. After some pondering, I also decided to include documentaries about comic books, because there can be some interesting stuff in there. I was going to discount movies based on comic strips, because that would open me up to so many old flicks that are impossible to find, but in the end, decided there are just too many ties between the two media to ignore them. So comic strip movies… yep. They count.

What DOESN’T count: For the record, a movie may meet the criteria I mentioned in the previous paragraph, but if it falls under one of these categories, it’s off the list. The “Don’t”s trump the “Do”s for my experiment. First off, I’m not counting old movie serials or ongoing TV series. I also am not counting any movies based on properties that didn’t originate in comics, even if they’ve HAD uber-popular comics, because again, that expands the scope more than I can handle. I'm not going to count television specials, just made-for-TV movies. For the purpose of this experiment, I'm going to declare that anything one hour or shorter in length is a “special.” It has to be longer than an hour to count as a movie. I’m also not going to include Japanese Anime in this. And finally, it’s got to be something that is available on DVD, preferably through NetFlix. I’m not gonna spend the rest of my life hunting down outdated VHS tapes and bootleg DVDs for the sake of this game.

Superman: The Motion Picture (1978): I covered this one in the first column, but in a nutshell, my favorite superhero movie ever.

Superman II (1980): Almost my favorite superhero movie ever. Director Richard Donner began filming this movie simultaneously with the first film, but clashes with the producers led to his replacement by Richard Lester. The resulting movie is still awesome, with some intense character development and the best superhero movie villain of all time in Terrance Stamp’s General Zod, but Lester added some silly parts and a really weak ending that dragged the film down. But there would, ultimately, be redemption.

Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut (2006): After over 25 years, Donner was finally allowed to recut the film as he would have made it, using deleted and discarded scenes, screen tests and other unfinished bits of film. The resulting product is a rough movie, but one that virtually eliminates almost every major problem I had with the theatrical cut (such as the amnesia kiss and the stupid made-up powers at the end). And the scene where Lois discovers Clark’s dual identity, unlike the version in Lester’s film, was absolutely perfect. Having watched this, I truly believe that Donner would have made the greatest superhero movie ever – again – if he’d been able to finish this movie as intended.

Superman III (1983): There is, I believe, a curse. No superhero franchise has yet made three great movies in a row. Hell, I think Blade: Trinity is the most successful third superhero film to date, and even that was just okay. This is the film that began the slippery slope. Granted, the movie isn’t unwatchable. Richard Pryor played a rather goofy computer genius that invented a supercomputer which was corrupted to battle the man of steel. The fight scenes were pretty bad, but the scenes of Clark Kent’s high school reunion in Smallville, and the introduction of Lana Lang (played ironically, by Annette O’Toole, who would later play Martha Kent on Smallville) were actually pretty good. It ain’t a great movie, but at least I don’t want to vomit when I watch it.

Supergirl (1984): In a bit of a holding pattern in terms of making the next Superman movie, producers Alexander and Ilya Salkind decided instead to take a chance on a spin-off movie featuring Big Blue’s young cousin, Kara Zor-El. Helen Slater was inspired casting for the girl of steel. Unfortunately, that’s where the inspiration ended, as the potentially great Supergirl was wasted on a really crappy movie. When her home of Argo City was threatened with destruction, Kara followed her cousin to Earth to face the evil of the sorceress Selena (Faye Dunaway… really). The writing was cheesy, the plot was weak, and even having Marc McClure – Jimmy Olsen from the other films – as a crossover guest-star didn’t help make this movie seem any closer to being part of the same amazing world Richard Donner and Christopher Reeve created. Such a shame, too.

Superman IV: The Quest For Peace (1987): Again, I talked about this in the first column, but this movie is the hallmark for bad superhero films the same way the first was the hallmark for good ones.

Superman Returns (2006): A lot of people complain about this movie, but I really don’t care. I loved it. Set in-continuity with the first two Christopher Reeve films, Superman has been missing from Earth for several years. He returns to find a world that hasn’t quite moved on, including a Lois Lane that is now a mother. The movie, admittedly, has its weak points. There’s no big “fight” scene at the end, and Kate Bosworth was a terribly weak Lois Lane, but Brandon Routh was a flawless successor to Christopher Reeve, the effects were stunning, and the score – by John Ottman – took the original music by the legendary John Williams and expanded upon it to great effect. And the scene with the plane rescue is one of the best action sequences ever put to film. There, I said it.

Look! Up in the Sky!: The Amazing Story of Superman (2006): This documentary, made in concert with Superman Returns is a pretty interesting look at the history of Superman, specifically focusing on his career in television and the movies. There’s lots of really interesting stuff in here about the life and mysterious death of George Reeves (the first TV Superman), about the life and tragic death of Christopher Reeve, the way the character has influenced popular culture, and just what Superman is all about. Kevin Spacy (Lex Luthor from Returns) serves as the narrator for this pretty in-depth look at the character.

Superman: The Last Son of Krypton (1996): The first animated movie with the character was actually the pilot for Superman: The Animated Series (Paul Dini and Bruce Timm’s follow-up to the amazing Batman show). In this movie, we got a very iconic representation of Superman’s origin, from the destruction of Krypton to the beginning of his career. The movie – and the series – had an excellent voice cast, including Tim Daly as Superman, Clancy Brown as perhaps the all-time greatest Lex Luthor, and Dana Delany as Lois. Really, all of the movies and shows from the Diniverse (or Earth-Timm, if you prefer) are awesome.

Superman: Brainiac Attacks (2006): On the other hand, some of the people who have attempted to follow Dini and Timm have really struggled. This direct-to-DVD film released (again) to capitalize on the release of Superman Returns was a disaster. Luthor and Brainiac form an alliance to try to destroy Superman once and for all, but the plotting is weak, the characters aren’t themselves and the animation was just plain awful. Even the return of Daly and Delany couldn’t save this clunker – and Powers Boothe was a poor substitute for Clancy Brown.

Superman: Doomsday (2007): One year later, however, Warner Brothers would get it right. This movie – the first in the current line of direct-to-DVD DC movies – was a very loose adaptation of the Death of Superman storyline from the comics. Superman faces off with the rampaging beast called Doomsday, and falls in battle. But after his death, will a pretender to the throne arise? It’s a pretty good film. James Marsters does a decent Luthor, and Adam Baldwin was a great Superman. The writers made an interesting choice in having Lois and Superman involved in a romantic relationship before she knew he was Clark Kent, but it was a choice that turned out to pay off. Anne Heche wasn’t a very good Lois, however, and for some reason Superman’s designs included a bizarre series of lines on his cheeks that just made him look really, really old for no apparent reason. It’s worth watching, but it’s not as good as the next film in the series, Justice League: The New Frontier, would be.

So that does it for all the film versions of Superman, except for the Batman/Superman movie – but fear not, that one is going to be included in next week’s column, in which I’m going to run down all of the films featuring the Dark Knight himself. If you can think of any movies I missed from this list, or any movies that should be added to the “overall” list, go ahead and let me know!

Favorite of the Week: March 19, 2008

Here’s a dark horse for you – I haven’t even been picking this book up, but when someone let it slip to me that two of my favorite characters would be making a return in this issue, I rushed out to get Batman and the Outsiders #5. Chuck Dixon, as always, writes a thrilling action story, and the return in question was wonderfully carried out in such a way that really gives me high hopes that we’ll see these two beloved heroes again, and more often, in the DC Universe.

Blake M. Petit is the author of the superhero comedy novel, Other People's Heroes, the suspense novel The Beginner and the weekly “Think About It” humor column at Think About It Central. He’s also the co-host, with the inimitable Chase Bouzigard, of the 2 in 1 Showcase Podcast. E-mail him at Blake@comixtreme.com and visit him on the web at Think About It Central.

[Blake Petit]

I didn't want to put this in the column itself, but for the sake of discussion, gang, here is as complete a list as I can compile of all the comic book/comic strip movies I have seen. (Movies in bold have already been discussed in this series of columns.):

30 Days of Night
300
American Splendor
Annie
Batman (1966)
Batman (1989)
Batman and Mr. Freeze: Subzero
Batman and Robin
Batman Begins
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
Batman Beyond: The Movie
Batman Forever
Batman Returns
Batman/Superman Movie: World's Finest
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman
Blade
Blade II
Blade: Trinity
A Boy Named Charlie Brown
Captain America
Casper
Comic Book Confidential
Comic Book Pajama Party: Women Who Love Comic Books
Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked
Constantine
Daredevil
Death of the Incredible Hulk
Dennis the Menace
Dick Tracy
Elektra
Fantastic Four (1994)
Fantastic Four (2005)
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
Flash Gordon
From Hell
Garfield: The Movie
Generation X
Ghost Rider
Ghost World
Hellboy
Hellboy Animated: Sword of Storms
A History of Violence
Howard the Duck
Hulk
Incredible Hulk Returns
Josie and the Pussycats
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Look, Up In the Sky: The Amazing Story of Superman
The Mask
Men in Black
Men in Black II
Mystery Men
Over the Hedge
Pogo For President
Popeye
Punisher (1988)
Punisher (2004)
Road to Perdition
The Rocketeer
The Shadow
Sin City
Snoopy Come Home
Spawn
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
Stan Lee's Mutants, Marvels and Monsters
Stardust
Supergirl
Superman: The Movie
Superman II
Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
Superman III
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace
Superman: Brainiac Attacks
Superman: Doomsday
Superman: The Last Son of Krypton
Tales From the Crypt Presents Bordello of Blood
Tales From the Crypt Presents Demon Knight
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze
Timecop
TMNT
To Riverdale and Back Again
Trial of the Incredible Hulk
Ultimate Avengers
V For Vendetta
Witchblade
X-Men
X2: X-Men United
X-Men: The Last Stand

And here is as complete a list as I can compile of comic movies I have not seen:

Barb Wire
Batman Vs. Dracula
Brenda Starr*
Bulletproof Monk
Captain America (1979)*
Casper Meets Wendy
Casper: A Spirited Beginning
Catwoman
The Crow
The Crow: City of Angels*
The Crow: Salvation
Crumb
Doctor Strange (TV Movie)*
Doctor Strange (2007)
Garfield Gets Real
Garfield: A Tale of Two Kitties
Hellboy Animated: Blood and Iron
Invincible Iron Man
Judge Dredd
Lil' Abner
Man-Thing
Mandrake (TV Movie)*
Mandrake the Magician
Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD*
Persopolis
The Phantom
Return of Captain America*
Richie Rich
Sheena
Son of the Mask
The Spirit (1987)*
Steel*
Swamp Thing
Superman and the Mole Men
Tank Girl
Teen Titans: Trouble in Tokyo
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: Turtles in Time
Todd McFarlane: The Devil You Know
Turok: Son of Stone
Ultimate Avengers 2
Virus

*-Not Available on NetFlix, and therefore, not likely to get reviewed any time soon...

If you see a notable omission from either list, please let me know.

[Ben Lehnsherr]

Originally Posted by Blake Petit

Favorite of the Week: March 19, 2008

Here’s a dark horse for you – I haven’t even been picking this book up, but when someone let it slip to me that two of my favorite characters would be making a return in this issue, I rushed out to get Batman and the Outsiders #5. Chuck Dixon, as always, writes a thrilling action story, and the return in question was wonderfully carried out in such a way that really gives me high hopes that we’ll see these two beloved heroes again, and more often, in the DC Universe.

Yeah, even though I had every intention of dropping this title, though I liked the first four issues....I couldn't stop after reading this one. Not a lot of depth, but action and art in spades.

[Wolverace]

Originally Posted by Blake Petit

If you see a notable omission from either list, please let me know.

Biggles (I mentioned it on your previous thread) http://www.amazon.com/Biggles-Advent...6513450&sr=1-1

[Chase Bouzigard]

Dude, you forgot Superman Vs Th Mole MEn it was a theatrical movie and it is on at lest 3 versions of DVD here in the states.

[Eric Barrett]

I suppose it's true with any particular subject matter: but within those movies you list is a HUGE amount of variation in viewing goodness. I'm still angry with some of those shows for the time they stole that I'll never get back!

[virtuadept]

Great column. I haven't seen all of those and of particular interest to me is that Donner cut of Superman 2, so I guess I know what I need to slap in my Flix queue next. I agree with you that Superman Returns was a better film than a lot of people give it credit for. I think the main problem with it is that he didn't get to beat up on anyone powerful enough to give him a challenge. But the plot was good, the acting decent-to-great, and the special effects, especially the jet rescue parts, were great.

I'll score the movies of your list that I've seen:

300 - 10/10 - over-the-top awesome. possibly my #1 comic-related flick.
Batman (1989) - 9/10 - single handeded reinvented comic book movies. the only flaw was the big-Joker-gun near the end, other than that a near perfect film.
Batman and Robin - 5/10 - okay movie. better than a lot of crappy comedies and dramas but poor for a comic book film.
Batman Begins - 10/10 - ranks up there with 300 as one of my favorites of all time, I can't think of anything bad to say about this movie.
Batman Forever - 9/10 - way better than a lot of people give it credit for. Kilmer was the best Batman prior to Bale.
Batman Returns - 8/10 - almost as good as the first film of it's series, I loved Christopher Walken's character, wish they'd have stuck with him and Catwoman and left out Penguin.
Blade - 8/10 - Wesley Snipes is one of the baddest-A's in a world of bad-A's. he owened this part. I can't even imagine Blade that isn't Snipes. Didn't like the ending much but this was a great movies overall.
Blade II - 6/10 - Don't remember much about this, which I guess means it wasn't memorable enough to be worth rewatching, didn't even go see #3.
Daredevil - 7/10 - The parts with Electra rocked because Garner is hawt. The parts with Aflec as Matt Murdock sucked. It balances out to be an ok movie. Bullseye was pretty cool in this also.
Fantastic Four (2005) - 7/10 - I thought it had some great moments but isn't all the memorable or great overall.
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer - 8/10 - For some reason I liked this one slightly better than the first one but still not quite to greatness.
Flash Gordon - 8/10 - Hilariously campy to me now, I love it for the sheer goofball factor alone, and the awesome, awesome Queen theme song.
From Hell - 6/10 - Didn't even know this was a comic book movie. But it wasn't that great, and I don't know of that's because the comic wasn't great or if the movie deviated too much from it. I watched it as a Depp fan and it's not one of his better films.
Ghost Rider - 7/10 - Pretty decent movie but not enough Ghost Rider in my Ghost Rider. Could have stood to be longer. I know they want to use big name actors like Cage when they are paying for them but really some more screen time of the actual Ghost Rider being a bad-A would have been nice.
Hellboy - 9/10 - Way underrated film IMHO, this is what introduced me to BPRD and Hellboy and while yes it might have been better in some ways I mostly really love this and rewatch it quite a bit too. How can you go wrong with occult-loving Nazi vampires and crap like that?!
Hulk - 4/10 - Without a doubt, this is the worst super-hero movie I've ever seen. Or at least the worst one I can remember. Fake looking effects, totally snooze-worthy plot, boring acting. I got the DVD for $5 and felt ripped off.
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen - 8/10 - Liked this far more than many folks did for some reason, primarily I think because of how Dorian Gray and Mina Harker were written, not to mention the other great characters. Decent plot. Great special effects.
The Mask - 8/10 - Really fun fun movie.
Men in Black - 7/10 - Pretty funny, not worth rewatching really but worth a see.
Punisher (1988) - ?/10 - I know I saw this but I don't remember much about it and now that I'm more of a Punisher fan after finding Ennis "Max" series I should probably go rewatch it.
The Rocketeer - 6/10 - Too Disney.
The Shadow - 5/10 - almost as boring as Hulk.
Sin City - 10/10 - Aweseome with a capital A. A bit too graphic for many people's tastes but not for me, I love gore. Just about the most perfect "reproduce the comic" I've ever seen.
Spawn - 8/10 - Really decent but not as good as the HBO Animated Series which was just awesome. Definitely worth a watch for the special effects with the cloak if for no other reason. This got me into Spawn, so probably if I'd already been a Spawn fan I might not have been so favorable to it.
Spider-Man - 10/10 - With great power comes pure AWESOME! Spider-man is my favorite comic hero both now and as a kid, and this movie really did the character justice. My only complaint is that Toby is too damn serious and they didn't do enough of the classic wise-cracking as Spidey.
Spider-Man 2 - 9/10 - a bit too much angst in this one drops it a notch from the first one but still great.
Spider-Man 3 - 8/10 - way better than a lot of people say, but still didn't match up to the greatness of #1 or even #2.
Stardust - 9/10 - I just loved this flick, it's like Princess Bride only different. I could see myself rewatching this a lot if they come out with a BD version.
Superman: The Movie - 8/10 - very good super-hero movie, just saw this again recently on HDNet and it was pretty great. I would probably like this movie more if I were more of a Superman fan.
Superman II - 6/10 - I haven't seen the Donner Cut but this movie was too campy for me to enjoy. It made a farce of what was great about the first movie, IMHO.
Superman III - 5/10 - And ... yeah. Don't even bother.
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace - 3/10. I know above I said that Hulk was the worst super-hero movie but I forgot about this one.
Superman: The Last Son of Krypton - 8/10 - I saw this as the TV show not as the DVD so if they changed stuff I don't know about that but this was an awesome animated series and the pilot was great.
Tales From the Crypt Presents Bordello of Blood - 5/10 - horrible.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - ?/10 been a long time since I saw this but I think I remember it being guys in turtle-suits, but it was not bad, I remember kind of digging it.
Timecop - 4/10 - This is based on a comic? Wow. Uber-lame, even by Crappy-Van-Damme-Movie standards.
TMNT - 9/10 - Really a lot of fun, very good computer animation, hope they do a sequel. I hate the hatas.
Ultimate Avengers - 6/10 - pretty disappointed in this actually. I am not that familiar with the Ultimate line of comics but I felt like a lot of the characters were misportrayed, although possibly they were just screwed up in Ultimate-verse.
V For Vendetta - 10/10 - This movie rivals 300 for my favorite comic book movie. Just awesome, awesome, and the graphic novel is awesome too. By far the best "thinking man's" comic movie. Everyone should read or watch this!

Witchblade - there's a witchblade movie?! holy crap I must see!

X-Men - 9/10 - Really great, almost in the same league as Spidey 1, VforV, 300, etc. I loved the casting choices. The plot was very good. Not much to not like here at all.
X2: X-Men United - 10/10 - It's rare that a sequel outdoes it's prececessor but IMHO X2 is the best X-Men movie ever filmed. It's just about perfect. Superb casting. Absolutely loved every scene with Nightcrawler in it. Awesome plot.
X-Men: The Last Stand - 7/10 - Basically a doofy plot with a gazillion plot holes, some mischaracterization of key characters (like Magneto), and removing some of the better cast from X2 dropped this one in my eyes but it's still well worth a watch.
The Crow - 9/10 - Very emo and angsty but I liked it. Has a great ambiance and soundtrack.
The Crow: City of Angels - 6/10 - great soundtrack but basically a rehash of the first movie with not-as-good-acting and not-as-cool-villain.
Son of the Mask - 0/10. Yes, 0/10. This is one of the worst movies of all time, let alone worst comic book movie of all time. This is absolute garbage in every single way not even fit to be used as bird cage liner.
Tank Girl - 8/10 - awesome soundtrack, uber-funny, well worth a watch.


A note on my scoring:
10 = almost perfect, very-rewatchable, definitely worth buying.
9 = superb with a few minor flaws, good rewatchability, worth buying.
8 = great movie, decent rewatchability, probably worth a buy.
7 = very good, definitely worth a view, probably not worth buying unless you're a fan of the series/character.
6 = not terrible, probably worth a rent.
5 = not that great, you might rent this if you're really bored.
4 or lower - various shades of garbage.

[Zap Rowsdower]

It's funny my group of friends feel exactly the same way about Superman Returns that you do about X3 and vice versa.

I didn't enjoy the film at all. I thought it was silly to make a movie in 2006 that was a sequel to a film that came out in 1980 (Superman 2). Plus they chose to make it a sequel to two films that it couldn't possibly live up to.

It was just a mistake from start to finish in my estimation.

[Justin Byrd]

I'm with you, Blake. I thought Superman Returns was great. It's what was exactly needed to bring the franchise back after the hiatus...to establish Superman as the world's greatest superhero, and why DC Earth needs him around. I look at Returns as a way to return Superman to a status quo of sorts, especially after the atrocious films he was in following II.

[Ben Lehnsherr]

Though it was good in small parts, I did not enjoy Superman Returns much at all. Admittedly I'm not the biggest Supes fan...but I'm also not the most nitpicky movie fan. Most of that movie was hard to watch, especially the Passion of the Kal-El parts. Lots of bad decisions in making it. And Singer isn't as good as he thinks he is......

But that plane crash....woo, you can't deny that was amazing. Visually, it had its eye candy.

[Blake Petit]

I was under the impression that Superman and the Mole Men was a serial, not a movie. I've got the DVD, I'll double-check, and I'll work it into a future column.

I'm looking up Biggles and, near as I can tell, it's based on a series of short stories and novels, although comics were produced featuring the character later.

The Witchblade movie, like Generation X, was a made-for-TV movie that also served as a backdoor pilot for a TV show. The difference is, Witchblade was actually picked up, while Generation X languished into obscurity.

[PinchyWearO]

My issue with Superman Returns was not a "big fight," the kid, nor the concept of the world moving on. Routh's portrayal of Superman was horrible. Not sure if it was his or Singer's fault but it would be like asking Roger Moore to imitate Connery's accent to stay in "continuity." And Superman was written out of character.

And the closest thing to a "successful trilogy" was Spider-Man. Yes, the last movie was very dissapointing, but it was still MUCH better than travesty that was Blade: Trinity.

The fact you still haven't seen The Crow still blows my mind. GO RENT.

[Adam Chapman]

I wasn't really a fan of Superman Returns either. To me, the mistake was that they took the opposite approach of Batman Begins. Batman Begins succeeded, for me, because it relaunched the franchise, and did something new with previous material. It was a different way of showing Batman, they did a long origin which really established Bruce as a character, and made his world make sense, made his gadgets, his get-up, everything, make sense for the story based on how the character developed throughout the movie.

Superman, on the other hand, was a sequel to a series that didn't need another one. It didn't try to be something new, and celebrated the fact that it was really just trying to copy the success of over twenty years previous.

I personally felt this was a mistake, and left movie Superman stuck in a Pre-Crisis vibe. This wouldn't have been so bad if we hadn't had Smallville and even Lois and Clark in the intervening period, where we'd as a public seen Clark Kent become more of who he was during the orignial movies period. Since that time, Clark has become the more dominant personality, and not just a mask that is constantly used. We've seen Clark be more than the Christopher Reeve version of the character. But the movie was mired in the pre-Crisis version of Superman, to a degree that it left me unmoved by the film.

The depiction of Lex Luthor also gave me a little whiplash, because although I LOVE Kevin Spacey, the Luthor he was given gyrated between pre and post-Crisis. Sometimes he was a bit silly like the Hackman version, and others he was the intensely serious business man like he has been in the post-Crisis incarnations.

Routh did an okay job, but he didn't own the role, because all he really did was pretend to be Christopher Reeve. This movie didn't own itself because it was really just trying to be something that was already done. It didn't carve out an identity for itself which was singular and unique, it just copied and pasted that which had already been done and tried to fit in.

The fact that Batman Begins had come out the year earlier made it even more stark for me, because Batman Begins did everything right, in my eyes, and then Superman Returns just didn't prove itself to me.

And that's all without mentioning Lois Lane, and the son-angle.

[Blake Petit]

Originally Posted by PinchyWearO

My issue with Superman Returns was not a "big fight," the kid, nor the concept of the world moving on. Routh's portrayal of Superman was horrible. Not sure if it was his or Singer's fault but it would be like asking Roger Moore to imitate Connery's accent to stay in "continuity." And Superman was written out of character.

And the closest thing to a "successful trilogy" was Spider-Man. Yes, the last movie was very dissapointing, but it was still MUCH better than travesty that was Blade: Trinity.

The fact you still haven't seen The Crow still blows my mind. GO RENT.

Dude, Superman was out of character but Emo-Spidey wasn't? No way. And Trinity wasn't as good as the first two, but I thought it was a decent enough action flick.

The Crow is on the NetFlix queue, I promise. I'll get to it.

[Adam Chapman]

Originally Posted by Blake Petit

Dude, Superman was out of character but Emo-Spidey wasn't? No way. And Trinity wasn't as good as the first two, but I thought it was a decent enough action flick.

Not that I'm necessarily defending his statement, but Emo-Spidey is at least explainable in the third movie because of the symbiote's intervention. Not that it makes it that much better...

[Ben Lehnsherr]

Originally Posted by PinchyWearO

And the closest thing to a "successful trilogy" was Spider-Man. Yes, the last movie was very dissapointing, but it was still MUCH better than travesty that was Blade: Trinity.

Trinity wasn't that bad. I liked part two better but it was decent. The Spider-Man trilogy was great right up until the hair-flip.........So yeah, that's probably the most successful trilogy of total work.

[WhereIsTony]

Parker was always a little whine and the suit made him more so.

I liked both movies enough but if looked at as part of a trilogy both were the weakest chapter

[Richard Davidson, Jr.]

Since the originally planned versions of the first two films wound up getting stirred in together after the Salkinds fired Richard Donner, I'd kind of be interested to see both films given the same treatment at least to show what could have been.

[PinchyWearO]

Originally Posted by Blake Petit

Dude, Superman was out of character but Emo-Spidey wasn't? No way.

Of course Emo-Spidey was out of character, that was the point. Did I miss the scene in which Superman's evil alien symbiote costume caused him to stand outside Lois's window and unethically use his powers to spy on her family? Red Kryptonite, perhaps?

And Trinity wasn't as good as the first two, but I thought it was a decent enough action flick.

...aside from the fact that the title character was sleepwalking through the entire thing...

[virtuadept]

Originally Posted by Adam Chapman

I wasn't really a fan of Superman Returns either. To me, the mistake was that they took the opposite approach of Batman Begins. Batman Begins succeeded, for me, because it relaunched the franchise, and did something new with previous material.

...

This movie [Superman Returns] didn't own itself because it was really just trying to be something that was already done. It didn't carve out an identity for itself which was singular and unique, it just copied and pasted that which had already been done and tried to fit in.

The fact that Batman Begins had come out the year earlier made it even more stark for me, because Batman Begins did everything right, in my eyes, and then Superman Returns just didn't prove itself to me.

And that's all without mentioning Lois Lane, and the son-angle.

I agree with everything you wrote but still come away with a completely different take on it. I thought Superman Returns was an entertaining movie, like maybe a 7/10. I bought it even. I have even re-watched it a few times and enjoy it for what it's worth.

But in no way would I ever begin to compare Superman Returns to Batman Begins. They aren't in the same ball park. They aren't even the same sport. Batman Begins is a super-hero-movie-masterpiece, and Superman Returns is just a decent movie that has Superman in it.

That's not to say I can't enjoy both movies, I just enjoy Batman Begins a lot more.

And probably not coincidentally, I like Batman way more than Superman anyway.

I think that you made a really good point about Smallville. I think Smallville has raised the bar considerably with what the public expects from a Superman movie/show. Smallville expands the character in so many ways. Clark isn't this godlike being with perfect morals who never gets anything wrong, he's a flawed character who tries to do the right thing and avoid the temptations of taking over the whole world because he has the power to do so yet chooses the higher path of doing the right thing most of the time, almost to a fault in some cases. In fact I didn't really even like Superman much at all until I watched Smallville, because I didn't really GET the character. In none of the Superman movies do they really show this side of the character.